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#393314 - 05/22/13 11:40 AM Now at Amazon...
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10965
Loc: Central NH
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#393317 - 05/22/13 01:08 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Wow, thanks for sharing. I know what I'm getting you for your birthday!
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#393318 - 05/22/13 01:22 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3171
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson


4K? WTF? "4Q," I say to them and their wantmonster.
'sides, I got my eye on a Panny plasma TH103, on sale today for a song, errr, I mean a car @ $29,999.
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#393319 - 05/22/13 01:47 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5932
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I especially like the sale offer.

List Price 6,999.99

Price 6,998.00

You save 1.99

My Next TV will probably be a 4K, but I've only had my Panasonic 65 inch VT50 for 11 months now. Hopefully, it'll still last a while. I've got a 4 year warranty on it that I paid extra for. So, I've got 3 years and 1 month of expect life left. Then it'll all blow up after the extended warranty expires.

This VT50 is not a perfect TV by any means. My eyes are real sensitive to motion problems and I've seen more motion problems with this TV than any I've used before. It's also a bigger screen than I've had before and maybe this amplifies the problems. If a 4K TV minimizes those problems, I'd be a buyer for sure.

But not for $7,000.00. Not for $6,000.00. Not for $5,000.00. Not sure about the rest.

Now, if only it came in super wide screen format, and was 9 or 10 feet wide, and it was acoustically transparent so I could mount in-cabinet speakers behind it, then I might give $10,000 to $12,000 for it. That is, if I could afford it at the time.

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#393320 - 05/22/13 01:49 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
I am so getting one of these for "work."
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#393321 - 05/22/13 02:07 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Huh. If you mouse over the 55-inch preview picture and the 65-inch preview picture, it looks like the only difference is that the 65-inch TV has smaller speakers and a smaller stand.

I'd go with the 55-inch model.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#393324 - 05/22/13 02:44 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10965
Loc: Central NH
Pu**y.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#393325 - 05/22/13 02:55 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10965
Loc: Central NH
Peter, look at this one and the 65" model will seem reasonable.

There's only one in stock, so I'm going to buy it now before Adrian tries to.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#393326 - 05/22/13 03:06 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5932
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Worthless. Not acoustically transparent.

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#393328 - 05/22/13 03:14 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6884
Loc: PEI, Canada
However, if you play a Pearl Jam concert on it, it will be acoustically incoherent.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#393331 - 05/22/13 04:10 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7223
Loc: Canada
Plan to move your couch a little closer to get the full benefit of that 4k. 2 feet from the screen should be optimal.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#393333 - 05/22/13 05:18 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6622
Loc: It's all about the location.
Mark I'll go halves with you on that TV...60/40.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#393334 - 05/22/13 05:34 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
The LG one is cheaper, Mark.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#393335 - 05/22/13 05:44 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1125
I can't wait to see one and confirm for myself if the difference is worth the investment.
Don't think I'll ever own one.
_________________________
The Hobbit in HFR 3D was worth the wait.

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#393336 - 05/22/13 06:52 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
This is probably as good a time as any to repost this again some more:



Since I don't have 20/20 vision and I'm not going to sit 4 feet from my TV, I think I'll pass.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#393338 - 05/22/13 08:42 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
At my new place I'm shooting for 100+ inches at 10 feet. But will definitely be moving over to a projector.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#393340 - 05/22/13 10:15 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1125
If I had never seen a retina display I would probably pass on the subject altogether.
After seeing how more pixels can/does benifit a display I'll eagerly await my first 4K experience.
We have the perfect opportunity to install a projector and screen and we both agree it would be nice to have the option to look out the window our TV is currrently blocking (+/-50%).
The veiwing distance would be 10-12'. The screen will cover the 94"x60" window and then some.
If we renew in October we'll be leaning in this direction.

720 works now. 1080 would be nice. 4K would be cool but likely a cash grab for in home use. Naturally I want it.


Edited by brwsaw (05/22/13 10:23 PM)
_________________________
The Hobbit in HFR 3D was worth the wait.

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#393341 - 05/22/13 11:24 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: brwsaw]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Your retina display is much closer to your eyes that a TV or projector screen. You don't need more pixels per inch than your eye can distinguish. The resolution is wasted.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#393344 - 05/22/13 11:44 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Exactly. Even the name of the "Retina" display is telling. It's designed to match the resolving power of light focused on the retina from its normal viewing distance.

That's what the chart above is showing too.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#393345 - 05/23/13 12:00 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1125
Its about perception. Tricking the mind. Believing you're there.
Its already achievable, obviously. It can be better.
I say the more detail the better.
Except when watching the Olympics. I don't care to see flapping skin on a diver again.
_________________________
The Hobbit in HFR 3D was worth the wait.

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#393347 - 05/23/13 12:17 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
But there are physical limits to perception. You don't have an infinite number of photo receptors on the back of your eye, nor is the lens capable of resolving more than a certain number of line-pairs. Once you exceed those numbers there is no more detail to be seen.

Contrast and color contribute much more to the perception of reality than resolution.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#393349 - 05/23/13 12:34 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
Is there 4k content? 4k cameras?
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#393350 - 05/23/13 12:36 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Yeah, there are definitely 4k cameras (Red just announced their 6k sensor). Almost everything that has been shot in the last 2 years has been on 4k+ digital. Good quality 35mm film can also resolve that much detail.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#393351 - 05/23/13 01:31 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
Thanks, Chris. I knew about film, but not about the current state of digital. What a world.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#393353 - 05/23/13 08:26 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Who wants to save $thousands?

http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-Digital-SE50UY04-50-Inch-120Hz/dp/B00BXF7I9M

Funny bonus: "What Other Items Do Customers Buy After Viewing This Item?" = Bewitched seasons 6 and 7 on instant video.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#393354 - 05/23/13 08:56 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
I ended up with an a acrylic encased real octopus in my suggestions after looking at that TV. No lie.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#393355 - 05/23/13 09:05 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: medic8r]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7413
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: medic8r


Ha ha, your link says BOOB.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#393356 - 05/23/13 09:13 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1125
720p works just fine.
Its also the best resolution currently available from my satelite provider.
_________________________
The Hobbit in HFR 3D was worth the wait.

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#393357 - 05/23/13 09:24 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: St_PatGuy]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
Originally Posted By: medic8r


Ha ha, your link says BOOB.

Well, then, that is definitely the TV for Mark, isn't it?!
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#393358 - 05/23/13 09:37 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10965
Loc: Central NH
::Runs away ordering::
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#393360 - 05/23/13 10:57 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5932
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
It's the mention of improved motion that caught my eye (pun intended) about 4k technology.

And not just the improved resolution.

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#393363 - 05/23/13 11:57 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
Which begs the question of refresh rates and what is discernible in that regard.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#393371 - 05/23/13 07:00 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
I'm still 120% satisfied with my 65VT30
_________________________
-David

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#393383 - 05/24/13 10:52 AM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: tomtuttle]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Which begs the question of refresh rates and what is discernible in that regard.

It raises the question. wink

The human eye doesn't have a "refresh" rate, it's more of how much does an object move between frames. If that distance is small enough our brains will connect the movement and see it as continuous. 6 to 12 Hz is all we need to connect motion, as long as the amount of movement is small. To perceive fast moving objects correctly the frame rate needs to be higher, or there there needs to be motion blur connecting the frames together. Blurring obviously decreases detail, so higher frame rates allow more detail to be preserved, while maintaining fluidity of motion. The larger the display appears, the larger movement will be from one frame to the next, thus big screens benefit more from higher frame rates.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#393389 - 05/24/13 11:23 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
Okay, well, how do you improve or measure "frame rate" or "motion" on a modern set?

Does 4k technology have improved frame rate / refresh rate / motion? If so, is there a measurement to help quantify that improvement?

I'm trying to learn, not argue.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#393406 - 05/25/13 09:03 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
The first batch of 4k displays only allowed for 24fps at full resolution. When HDMI 2.0 becomes available it will allow for up to 60 fps at 4k. But there's nothing else special about any of the UHD stuff that allows for better motion than that.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#393407 - 05/25/13 09:33 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
There's always something better right around the corner, isn't there...
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#393408 - 05/25/13 10:13 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5932
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Soon, there'll be nothing more to invent, so we must close down the patent office as a relic of antiquity.

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#393409 - 05/25/13 11:41 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: Ken.C]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: Ken.C
There's always something better right around the corner, isn't there...

If you wait for the next best thing, you never have to spend any money.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#393420 - 05/26/13 01:21 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Gary Vose Sr Online   content
devotee

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 302
Loc: Casa Grande, AZ
I feel that the world of electronics, for the most part, always has the next best thing lined up. Sometimes it will have the next two generations lined up in some form of R&D raring too go. But they must first bleed every last wooden nickel out of the consumer, before unveiling the latest and greatest.

When that next new thingy does hit the market, most people will look at it and say, yes it does have a few more options or abilities over what I'm currently using, but not enough to render what I'm currently using as useless. So we do not make the purchase.

Now, when that second generation comes out, of that new thingy, we take a good hard look at it since we are now thinking of a couple of things here. One, I'm starting to feel like I'm being left in the dust a little bit. Two, how do I go about making the case to the head of the household, I mean...the wife. Some of us even dare to make a case at this point. Some of us just don't have the cajones to muster up the courage to even think about approaching the boss, I mean...the wife about this subject matter.

Now later on, when the third generation of this newest thingy comes out, we feel like what we have now, leaves us in the stone age. Now something happens down deep in the male DNA structure, that allows us to over ride any fears, or worries about approaching our leader, I mean... wife. We think about the words that we will have to speak knowing that we will have only one chance. And that we better make a case better than Perry Mason himself. In the end we know that we will have to wait for the jury to come back in with its decision, I mean... wife, before this next newest thingy has a chance to be sitting in our home.
_________________________
"When arguing with an IDIOT... make sure the person you're talking to... isn't doing the same."

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#393425 - 05/26/13 02:44 PM Re: Now at Amazon... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5932
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Or if you only live with a cat, one who hates movies to begin with, a little bullying never hurts.

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