Get Free, Friendly, Expert Advice
Call 1-866-244-8796 or email

Designed and Manufactured in Canada Since 1980


AxiomAudio Blog

Sneak Peek into Axiom’s Current Research and Development

Axiom’s Newest Speaker: The In-Ceiling M3

Outdoor Speaker Placement

Wall'O'Fame
Experimental Atmos
Greetings fellow Axiom owners...
Who's Online
2 registered (SirQuack, a401classic), 175 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Financing
Forum Stats
13323 Members
11 Forums
22901 Topics
404657 Posts

Max Online: 378 @ 02/24/13 04:33 PM
Top Posters
Ken.C 17782
pmbuko 16280
SirQuack 13337
CV 11208
MarkSJohnson 10904
Meanwhile On Facebook

󾓶 The first review of the LFR880s is out! "If you are adding or upgrading stere...

So much going on in this month's newsletter - new product announcements, a new v...

Love this comment from Doug T! "The M22 bookshelf speakers sound so clean and a...

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#397353 - 09/25/13 08:27 PM Thoughtful advice needed
Boomzilla Offline
buff

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 42
I'm strongly considering some Axiom speakers and would like to solicit some thoughtful opinions on which model to choose.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

My current listening room is 15 x 25 feet and is well damped with absorber panels
The speakers will be firing across the 15 foot distance
I do not listen at loud levels
I have amplifiers suitable for 4-ohm loads
I am more interested in soundstaging and delicacy than in high volume
I am interested in MUSIC, not in movie sound

I'm considering the M60 and M80 models. I have heard some V.3 M80s at a friend's house and liked them well. His room is smaller than mine, though, and because of that the individual locations of his drivers were discreet rather than blending together. It is probable that in the next few years, I'll be moving to a smaller house with rooms closer to the size of my friend's than my current room. I want a speaker that will work in both large and small rooms.

If anyone has had experience with BOTH the M60 and M80 models, I'd be extremely interested in which you might recommend to me and, perhaps more importantly, why. Before answering, please reread my "background information" section.

I've had good luck with bi-amplifying my current speakers (Definitive Technology SM65 monitors) and would also be interested in hearing from anyone who has bi-amplified their M60/80 speakers. What changes did you hear?

Finally, is Axiom responsive to "special orders?" I might prefer my speakers to have a real wood veneer but in a high gloss (rather than semi-gloss) finish. Can Axiom accommodate special orders?

This is my first post on the Axiom boards, so please forgive any stupid questions. Thanks - Boomzilla

Top
#397355 - 09/25/13 08:47 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Welcome.

Axiom is very responsive to special orders. I think it is one of the things that really sets them apart.

I have M60's and have heard M80's on several occasions.

To my ear, the M80's are "better" and the only reasons not to get them would be price and form factor. They are a couple inches deeper, and while that may not sound like much, some board members over the years have had trouble positioning them.

OTOH, you could also seriously consider getting M22's and a good subwoofer. This solution would provide you with the placement flexibility and imaging you're looking for without all the cabinetry.

Good luck and have fun.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

Top
#397356 - 09/25/13 08:50 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
I can speak to your last question best: Yes, Axiom is accommodating to special orders. Just call them up; don't try to do it through the website. It will probably cost more to get a high gloss finish; from what I know, that takes a TON of extra coats and they do all of that by hand.

I own M80s and have heard M60s, but not anywhere near the same time. I think you would be happy with either one. The M80s are admittedly more aimed towards high volume. The rooms my M80s have been in are all fairly large; 18x19 or thereabouts. I think my current room is bigger, but I haven't measured recently.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

Top
#397357 - 09/25/13 09:28 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10904
Loc: Central NH
I haven't measured my room recently either. Maybe it's not square anymore? grin

Welcome Boom! I haven't heard M60s and M80s side by side, but for what you're describing, I kind of like Tom's M22 and Sub idea.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

Top
#397358 - 09/25/13 10:06 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Boom, welcome. Since you'll be listening across the 15' room dimension, depending on where the seating will be(which you didn't describe), your distance from the drivers would be about 10'. Several of our members have described listening to their M80s at 9-10' distances, and no "blending" issue was apparent. At what distance were you and your friend listening when a problem of that sort was experienced?

Unless that distance is perhaps on the order of 6-7' I wouldn't anticipate a problem. Nevertheless, for high quality music listening in your situation I'd suggest that you consider the M22s plus a good sub(I use the EP500). My own listening is about 99% classical music and isn't at levels which endanger hearing. The M22s have more than sufficient volume capability for the distances you seem to be considering, together with superb music reproduction, and in my view a multi-driver tower speaker with still higher loudness capacity is unnecessary.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



Top
#397360 - 09/25/13 10:10 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
Boomzilla Offline
buff

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 42
Hi Axiomites!

My friend's listening distance is closer to 7 feet; mine closer to 10 or 11.

So the M22s are that good? I'd like to avoid a sub and stands, but if I can't then I can't. I'd save a LOT of $$ by going M22s...

Top
#397362 - 09/26/13 06:35 AM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10904
Loc: Central NH
Well, there's certainly no reason why M60s or M80s wouldn't work just as well if you prefer a tower form. We usually recommend the minimum to save you some money!

As to myself, I "heard" that you'll be sitting relatively close, not cranking them up, and not interested in HT/Surround modes. If I didn't have a preference for a tower or a bookshelf form factor, I think I'd be looking at the M22s/sub.

But if you like towers....there's nothing wrong with that! smile
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

Top
#397363 - 09/26/13 09:42 AM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Holbrook, MA
I have recent experience. I brought my 80's to a friend's house who owns 60's for a comparison.

"I am interested in MUSIC, not in movie sound"

Get the 80's. Why fiddle around integrating sub when the 80's go deep so well. The 80's are better than the 60's. The 60's are still excellent speakers and are not disappointing at all.

I sit pretty close to my 80's. About 7 feet. They are perfectly relaxed at low and medium volumes.

The 80's look majestic in a room. The M22's look strange. If you do go for a bookshelf / sub combination then I would say to get the M2s.

I think the M80 is a steal for the money. They are awesome. They just do everything. Ian is a genius.



Edited by Lampshade (09/26/13 09:46 AM)
_________________________
M3 and Manley Stingray
M80 and Pioneer SC 55

Top
#397365 - 09/26/13 10:09 AM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Lampshade]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
I agree with Chris, although I have the M80s and the LFR1100s but the M80s really do sound fantastic on direct stereo.
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

Top
#397367 - 09/26/13 11:10 AM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 219
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
I also have M80s and LFR1100's. My LFR's are very custom with a high gloss wood veneer in an exotic wood. Axiom was indeed very accommodating although the cost of the custom finish added significantly to the total price for the speakers. On the other hand, I don't imagine that the sound quality is any different than the stock finishes.

For music listening, do you mean stereo or multi-channel? And what kind of music do you prefer?

Have you considered the LFR's or M100s? My LFR's are amazing for music, even jazz at relatively low levels.

Top
#397375 - 09/26/13 05:59 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: cohesion]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3163
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
I have had M60v3's for almost 4 years now. They have been loved, admired and revered, and not just by myself. Other attenuated ears (long-time musician friends) felt the same. I always thought the only signif. diff. would be at the bottom. Recently, having been the other part of lampshade's post, I had 60's and 80's (also v3's) at the same time in my listening room. I was surprised that they were even more transparent than my 60's---across the entire spectrum!

That's why I'm trading up to the 100's. Oh, no, it's not because I truly expect that they will, if even slightly, surpass the performance of the 80's. It's because now I can have the model up from Chris (lampshade). Who says this isn't all, penis politics?! I'm willing to admit it! My best-friend-tool-acquisition competitor passed on, so now I have had to find alternative avenues. Had I known Mark...

(For those who do not know better, I'm kidding. For those who DO know better, you're all crap to me and I hate you.)

Equally interesting:

Chris called later that day and asked if I had plugged my 60's back in yet. I had, immediately after the 80's were gone.
"Well, what did you think when you listened to them?"

"Oddly, I wasn't disappointed at all. It was like they were never here."

I'm glad I'm making a dbl jump to the 100's, because that WILL be noticeable, everywhere.

If I were choosing again between the 60's and 80's, I'd choose the 80's. I have 7.1 ep500, QS8, 150, in wood, ycb's, like great speakers should be clad. Nuthin' says "audiophile" like plastic, I always say. I also never aspired to grow up, buy a house, and cover it with plastic, either, and I haven't. I listen to music many hours per week. Can't say that for bluray. It was fun at first, but there's way more stuff I'm eager to hear than to watch.

Now I know I was always a 2 channel guy (I could have, but didn't fall for Quad, thank gaud.) The 100's are my big return to that, if I don't die from mesh prolapse waiting for them.
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

Top
#397378 - 09/26/13 08:30 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
Boomzilla Offline
buff

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 42
Thanks to ALL who have responded - You've entertained, edumocated, and enlightened me!

To answer some of your questions:

All my music is ripped from 44.1 KHz "red book" CDs.
I listen via iTunes streamed to an Airport Express
The TOSLINK output of the Airport is plugged into a Jolida tube DAC
The DAC drives power amplifiers directly (I've got a variety of amps)
The amps currently vertically bi-amplify my Definitive Technology SM65 speakers
I own 3 subwoofers, but none are currently in use.

I listen to stereo almost exclusively unless friends come over for movies.

I like a wide, Wide, WIDE variety of music. My most recent listening session included:

Dolly Parton
LMFAO
Madonna
Stravinsky's Firebird
Norah Jones
The Gatlin Brothers
The Lords of Acid
The Atlantic Brass Quintet
Kraftwerk
Jennifer Warnes
Jerry Reed
Yo Yo Ma
Etc.

As a result of your suggestions, and having actually heard my friend's, I'm leaning toward some M80s. Questions:

Axiom apparently doesn't think that bi-wiring or bi-amplifying their speakers makes any difference. To my ears, however, my DefTechs sound significantly better with bi-amplification. Is Axiom nuts or am I?

Do the cast baskets available from Axiom make any difference in the speakers' sound?

Can additional cabinet bracing be had from Axiom? The one thing bad that I notice about my friend's M80s is that the cabinets seem poorly reinforced.

Does Axiom have annual Christmas sales or something? Their list prices (although inexpensive both in terms of quality for the money and in the absolute sense) are very close to a number of other speakers that I've heard and loved.

And finally - Is anyone on the boards interested in upgrading their Axioms and selling me their old M60s or M80s?

Thanks - Boomzilla

Top
#397379 - 09/26/13 09:21 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
Having listened to various combinations of speakers at Axiom before here is what I think:

M22 + Sub = M60 with a much better bottom end

The M80 is considerably better than the M60 in the bottom end and subtly better in the mids and treble.

They are all very good speakers. I'm curious why you do not have the M100 on your list. If you are listening 2 channel, then these would appear to give you the best bass of the lot.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

Top
#397380 - 09/26/13 09:23 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: BobKay]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: BobKay
...
(For those who do not know better, I'm kidding. For those who DO know better, you're all crap to me and I hate you.)
...

We all missed you to Bob.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

Top
#397381 - 09/26/13 10:49 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: fredk]
Boomzilla Offline
buff

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 42
Originally Posted By: fredk
...I'm curious why you do not have the M100 on your list. If you are listening 2 channel, then these would appear to give you the best bass of the lot.


Not according to the specs, Fred - This website says the -3 dB point of the M-100s is 31 Hz. The M-80's is also 31 Hz. So on the face of it, and using Axiom's own specs, no difference!

Since I don't listen loudly, why would I pay $1,100 extra for no better frequency response and louder volume capabilities that I won't ever use?

Also, in smaller spaces (where I'm headed in a few years), the M100s would be an even greater mismatch. In fact, the M22s with a sub are sounding better. When I get to the smaller space, I can cull the sub & still do just fine. Further, the cabinets being smaller, they're less likely to "sing along with the music," making the speakers less likely to need replacement when I move.

Again, does Axiom ever have sales?

Thanks - Boomzilla

Top
#397384 - 09/26/13 11:23 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Not really "sales", but note that the factory outlet offers new speakers at 10% off which have slight cosmetic blemishes. These are generally so slight as to be practically undetectable, which was the case with my M22s.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



Top
#397394 - 09/27/13 08:18 AM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 219
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Hi Boom,

Since you asked, I do have a pair of M80's sitting unused right now. They were originally purchased from the Axiom Outlet about 1-2 years ago. There must be some blemish on them but I've never noticed any...

I'd consider selling them if you decide you want to go with M80's. Are you in Canada? I'm not sure it would be worthwhile to ship very far as Axiom probably gets a much better shipping rate than I would. Also mine are the black oak (vinyl) stock finish. There is generally less selection in the Outlet for real wood if that's really what you want. Also you wouldn't be able to choose the species of wood or glossiness of the finish.

According to Ian there is no difference in sound quality between the cast or stamped speaker baskets.

By the way, I think that Axiom needs to fix the specifications on the M100s. They should go at least 2-3 Hz lower than the M80's. Even my LFR's do and they still have the original M80 woofers (just 3 instead of 2 and a bigger cabinet). Would that make a difference in your decision?

Top
#397402 - 09/27/13 01:00 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Boomzilla]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
Welcome Boomzilla,

Re your question about the bass difference between M80s and M100s or LFR1100s, it is really more about the M100s and LFR1100s being more linear in the entire bass region below 100Hz than it is about a few HZ at the very bottom. There is also the fact that the M100s and LFR1100s with the power pack option that is now available are capable of much greater overall SPL output in the bass before any compression occurs.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

Top
#397405 - 09/27/13 01:12 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: Ian]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 219
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Ian
Welcome Boomzilla,

Re your question about the bass difference between M80s and M100s or LFR1100s, it is really more about the M100s and LFR1100s being more linear in the entire bass region below 100Hz than it is about a few HZ at the very bottom. There is also the fact that the M100s and LFR1100s with the power pack option that is now available are capable of much greater overall SPL output in the bass before any compression occurs.


Considering that Boomzilla stated that he doesn't typically listen at high volume, it seems like the M80s would serve him well then.

Ian, does this mean that you're finished tweaking the DSP program for the LFR's with the new woofer?

Top
#397408 - 09/27/13 01:47 PM Re: Thoughtful advice needed [Re: cohesion]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
Hi cohesion,

I am indeed finished with the new code as of yesterday. It took a lot longer than I originally anticipated but Andrew and I got playing around with some fine detail at the end.

The increased linearity would be a benefit with the M100s and LFR1100s with the power pack at any volume level but the higher SPL capabilities in the bass would not come into play until you started cranking it up.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Home  |  Corporate Info  |  Products  |  Message Board  |  FAQs  |  Warranty  |  Site Map  |  Privacy Statement   |  Contact Us

©2014 Colquhoun Audio Laboratories Limited
All Rights Reserved.