Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M80HP

Has anyone received their HP's yet and/or had time to compare to the standard M80?

No and no (I will be comparing them to first generation M60's-probably not a fair comparison). Brent told me the last week of December or first of January

I'm counting the days...

Crickets, crickets......

I just got the email from Brent stating that my M80HP speakers are shipped today !

fingers crossed

Good for You! I didn't get my email today

Hopefully next week

Rick

Nope.
Monday Monday, so good to me,...
Its what Brent said "hopefully Friday, if not Monday" If I remember correctly.

Mine are on their way. Will arrive one day short of four months since the order was placed. These better sound good!

Is there a consensus on hours of break-in time for the M80HP's or is it nonsense?

I personally believe there is some break in and here is why. I replaced a woofer in my sons sub just before Christmas. After we installed it, it barely produced any bass, no setting had been changed. Within a few days the bass output was better than it had ever been. Same thing with my Yamaha powered sub that I replaced the driver in. When the speakers are designed they have many hours on them during design and crossover tweaking. Before they leave the factory they are fed a brief sine wave through each driver and monitored by a computer (axiom uses LMS ) program to test they are working correctly. So prior to you hooking them up they are fresh and stiff right out of the box. There is a reason why new surrounds are available. That's my thoughts take em or leave em

Richard

Yes, speaker "break-in", to the extent that it's sometimes claimed to exist is largely nonsense. Periods of use requiring weeks or even months are promoted occasionally and it's been said that "break-in was invented so that we couldn't return anything"! An initial permanent break-in which would take no more than a minute or so(and often would take place in factory testing before being shipped)would show a measurable "loosening" of the driver. Every time a speaker is turned off it partially reverts over a period toward its unused state, but this immediately returns to the "broken-in" state a second or so after being turned on again.

Dr. Toole and others point out the lack of any long term audible changes(in blind listening tests)which can be observed. This may be fortunate. I now have about 30,000 hours on my M22s and if some long-term changes were occurring they certainly would have reached the optimum point long ago and now would be well into a period of deteriorating performance. Instead they continue to sound identically excellent as they did when I fired them up with "The Planets" when first received.

wow that is like 3.4yrs of non stop playing...

Johnk Knows....

Randy, it's about 7-8 hours a day of classical music over the past 12 years.

Edit: Rob, good to see you back again!

I noticed a definite difference around 20hrs with my M80 v3. It probably relates more to the fact I felt safe turning them up at that time.
I haven't received my shipping notice yet for the HP's.
Hopefully someone else will confirm.

I will take real world experience every time. Watch this Video made by Andrew Welker ,and a 3.54 you will hear Andrew explain the frequency sweep used, and the sweep does not move the drivers appreciably. Your response, no matter how eloquent,implies that people who hear a difference are idiots and that is not the case.

Richard

It seems I always leave something out of my posts.
To elaborate on my last post it was the tweeters that seemed to mellow out at approximately 20 hours and at that time I got a little more carefree because of how nice they sounded.

Thank you, John. Good to see your sage advice. Not to hijack this thread, (just mentioning this is probably a bad idea) I'll start a new one (thread) in a couple of weeks asking advice on the latest AV Receivers.

Now that was a series of responses! Thanks to all, the speakers are approximately 4 hours away from delivery (yes, the OCD kicked in and I tracked them). I will see if I notice any changes over the time from when I initially use them. Unless Axiom does another worthwhile upgrade, I will be listening to these, however they sound, pre and post "break-in".

Socketman, JohnK is not implying you are an idiot. Another interpretation of his statement is this: Your senses can't be trusted, as has been shown time and time again. In the absence of information to convince them otherwise, most people -- yes, even non-idiots -- will believe their senses.

The fact is, we do have better information about how humans perceive sound. Research has shown that -- and may I point out that acoustic research is performed with equipment that is far more sensitive than human ears -- any break-in that occurs happens very quickly during the first minute that the speaker has ever played. Any changes beyond that are not detectable by the human ear.

It has also shown that adults with average hearing also experience sound in the same way, so a possible defense of "I probably hear differently than you" usually do not hold up.

No need to be defensive. John's dry, clinical posting style is just trying to pass on the facts as he knows them.

My M80HP’s were delivered last Monday and I immediately hooked them up and did a quick audyssey calibration. I upgraded to these new speakers from M60v2 that were seven years old. I am powering them with an Emotiva XPA-2. When I started listening to them the quick difference I could feel was more bass. Apart from that I could not feel much difference. I hope that the speakers will sound better after the so called “break-in” period.

I have a 7.1 setup with these new speakers along with a VP-160, 4 QS8’s and one SVS SB-13 Ultra Sub. The QS8’s and VP-160 are powered by Emotiva XPA-5. I am using a Denon 3312ci as processor.

IMO I think any changes to the driver occur because of the rise in the VC temperature more than the actual physical excursion of the drive-unit.

But its been shown in tests that the driver parameters after the signal is turned off and the VC is left to cool back to its room temperature state, the changes in the T/S parameters are negligible. Unless of course you push the VC temperature so high to the point it permanently destroys the drive unit.

Here is what you do.Hook em up, listen to them for 10 seconds then put that song on a replay and leave the house for 3 days then come back and see if they sound different. Oh shit that wont work, our sonic memory Is useless . I guess best thing to do is just hook em up and enjoy them, that's the best way In my opinion.

Enjoy and yeah its ok to track them, but no more than evey 10 minutes.

My update confirms a weeks wait until they ship.
I hate to do it but I'm torn between waiting and cancelling.

you cant quit now. That would be such a let down, why would you even consider doing this. ?? Hang in there, there is a lesson in this for you gwasshoppah

I'm just so curious on the audio differences between the M80's v3 and the M80HP...

keep us posted !

Hmmm, interesting premise. Don't think my wife would enjoy King Crimson on replay, nor would any of the neighborhood animals. I did cut the tracking down to hourly. If they came one day later, would have been 4 months! UPS carried them into the house whereupon wifey texts to say they were here. Packing the M60's for return ought to be fun, the boxes look pretty beat up. Ducktape.

Glad to hear they arrived safely, i look forward to your impressions once you have settled in and had time to listen to them. That's pretty good service from UPS, good thing I doubt your wife would want to pack them. We don't have decent delivery folk here. When I got my M80's they came greyhound from Edmonton, that's as far as ups goes. Then greyhound lost one of them, I damn near went off the deep end lol. I had to go to the van and carry them in myself. Best buy shipped my 60 inch LG and freight company would only bring it to the door, from there it was all mine.

BTW I was just being silly about 3 day break in. Maybe it is just psychological. There seems to be a split right down the middle as far as opinion goes , c'est la vie.

Seems time keeps dragging on.
When December 20th was given as the ship date I asked to delay it until after the Christmas freight rush.
I wrongly assumed they would still be produced
and would be ready to ship once requested.
I was told last week they should be ready for Friday and if not Monday.
Yesterdays inquiry says another week before shipping.
I guess I'm a little disappointed with my own decision to delay the shipment. Again, not realizing it meant delaying production for a month.

All the wait will make you enjoy these more.... once they ship your're home-free soon after, shipping always seems quick...

Its a minimum of a 10 day wait once I get the notification.
The M80's took 2 weeks.

Damn , Axiom must be crazy busy. I live in the middle of nowhere and it only took a week though they lost one speaker and it took a couple days extra. They made a mistake and sent them ground and should have come by air, least that was what I was told. Hang in there, I am sure you will regret canceling your order.

I haven't cancelled and I won't.
Did I mention I've been running a phantom center while I wait, it seems to be the breaking point atm.
If I had ordered the single M80 I would have had it weeks ago.

Any HP owners notice any thing, subtle or not when using in their HT?

I received my HP 80's Tuesday. I got real wood this time. One of the boxes had a hole in it. The speaker's veneer is splitting down one side. The Axiom jewelry is missing the m. The speakers do look sweet in real wood.

The biggest thing I noticed right away everything seems to be cleaner, by that I mean more defined easier to identify the instruments. The sound is not muddy. I'm not saying the M80v3 is muddy this speaker just seems to be noticeably clearer more defined. These speakers are located in my home theater system.

Anyone else's thoughts?

YEAH , where are the pictures.

Exactly what I was hoping to read.

Still trying to figure out how to post pictures on this site. I'm somewhat computer impaired. I did send the damaged picture's to Brent.

Check out this post I made on posting photos. It's a little dated now, but should still be helpful.

That's so adorable how you think you're still "helpful".

Once a year, I make an attempt at it to justify my time here to Joyce.

My M80HP’s arrived yesterday – they shipped surprisingly quickly – left Axiom Thursday via regular shipping, arrived Monday morning (In Vancouver).

So, for a quick, very unprofessional review after 4 hours of listening. First, they replace an old set of Klipsch Heresy speakers, so my basis for comparison is those, and a pair of Linn Majik 109’s that a friend has.

My hopes were that the M80’s would have bass response at least as good as the Kilpsch (with it’s 12” woofers) but would surpass it in the mid’s and high’s (where I thought the Kilpsch was weak). And would compare to the Linn’s mids and highs but with better bass.

Maybe my expectations were unrealistically low – but suffice to say they were blown away by the M80 HP’s – the bass extension on them is incredible – the Holly Cole Temptation CD became an entirely new piece of music to me – the bass was deeper, clearer, far more visceral than the Linn’s or the Klipsch’s were able to show. And the mids and highs were clear and spacious, much better than even the Linn’s were able to produce. And when you crank the volume up, they really shine – Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon just sounded better and better as it got louder – everything stayed crisp and clean, with nothing strained – very comfortable to listen to. And last, my Hi-Def copy of Kuniko’s Cantus was a thing of beauty – the marimba rang clear notes in a completely empty soundscape - the impacts of the hammers were separate from the notes, the music itself just floated.

And last, nothing to do with the sound – but I got them with the walnut veneer – and Axiom did a great job – the finish is excellent.

So, after 4 hours, Axiom has a very happy customer.

Rick

Very nice! Congrats!

And thank you for the valuable review.

And also compliments go to Axiom on their packaging - while delivery was quick, the boxes were pretty beaten up - couple of tears and dents in the outer box - but nothing made it through to the speakers.

Rick

I'd love to see some pictures since you got the real walnut. I'll bet they're gorgeous!

Here's a picture:

[img]https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/nyUCrGDtlTn8L5CAywwgKXZhq4r1b8Z35JGsL96hF7s?feat=directlink[/img]

I have been using the new M80HP speakers for over two weeks now and I should comment over here that I can really feel the difference now. I have tested them with all kind of music like Indian classical music and film songs and each time I can feel the difference between these new speakers and my old M60’s. Everything is clean and beautiful sounding now. Bass is terrific. Vocals are clean. I can hear each musical instrument clearly and distinctly.

I should mention that along with these new speakers, I also got an Arcam irDAC and I have been using them as USB speakers with my Synology DS213j DiskStation. Now my lossless music collection and even my old mp3’s sound so good. SACD’s and DVD audio never sounded so good. The best part is that my wife is really happy and we are spending time in media room listening to music more than ever .....

Thank you Axiom !

I'm just so interested on the sound variations between the M80's v3 and the M80HP...

I'm not to good with describing things, so please don't laugh at my impression with the HP's after 9 hours listening.
I really like the M80 so this isn't intended to bring them down at all. They are great speakers, if I could I would keep the two I have.
At first I found the difference between the two to be subtle when with an edge to the M80 (could be positioning, no break in etc) which had me a little (more) concerned.
I had expected you guys would be right about being bloated etc, but I've got plenty of room around them and am quite impressed. I'm sure the room is helping me here. That's for another thread.
After the first hour or so of listening to only the HP's I really started to feel different about them. I wasn't listing too critically for the first three CD's, just playing random new CD's I'd picked up, so, I wasn't familiar with the tracks.
Once I put in some music I've listen to hundreds of times (The Tragically Hip)and even live twice, I really started to listen.
I almost had to rethink how I was judging sound, going from more of a pin point accurate presentation (highs)to a more neutral, natural presentation. The sound is more believable. Definitely worth considering the upgrade.
The cross overs are better, or at least how well the sound blends is better. With 5 towers across the front of the room, you'd swear they were all putting out sound. You have to walk up to them to confirm which 2 speakers are in fact playing.
The M80 had this down pretty good too, its just better with the HP.
I've had several moments where I can't believe I'm not there (especially live recordings or small two piece recordings)and hard to believe the amount of envelopment from two towers. I think I lucked out with the original placement, only needing to toe them in ever so slightly and down +/-5/8 of an inch (they are +/- 12" off the floor).
Of the 3 adults to sit down and listen thus far I got 1 "I like it", 1 "sounds nice, clear!" and 1 who decided to stay a while. We sat there in silence listening to Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson playing and singing together until he had to go. He really liked how cleanly you could hear and visualize the plucking of guitar strings.
They are crazy good, you'll close your eyes for no other reason but to remove the visual side of the presentation good.
With my eyes closed I wasn't hearing from the front, I could feel a sound field. This is one thing I'll try to find a better description of. Its almost alien, and will be tough to discribe accurately.
I've always tried to envision the band in front of me when listening, there were a couple moments when, with my eyes closed, I could see an instrument enter the sound field from the top corner of the room or from the bottom and just float there, increasing the feeling I was in a different place, not sitting on a love seat 11' from speakers.
I don't think I could do it better with surrounds.
I have a good friend coming over after lunch. I told her to bring her favourite music.
So glad I have Mondays off again.

Great info, thanks!

That didn't go to well.

Can room temperature effect overall perceived sound quality?

only if its too hot and you had too many MGD's

The room hadn't been used until we went in it at lunch time. I turned the system on and turned it up to 75db and 80db (uncalibrated S4) and it sounded bad.
Thought it was the music, changed the cd's still not the same.
I left a heater in the room for the last two hours, I'm going to listen again tonight.
I'd drink (happily) to achieve the same enjoyment level I had last night and the night before. I don't think most of my guests would be willing to do the same.
My first "sounds like my stereo at home" comment and I can't say I'd disagree.
Nothing changed accept the amount of light in the room (I enjoy music more in a darkened room), the temperature (5°if I had to guess) and no beer.
I wasn't drinking last night so I'll rule that out.
I need to get my surrounds wired and placed and calibrate my subs in their new positions ( when I confirm the best spot for them).
Lots to do still, good thing I have a reasonable deadline.

Still happy, just need to hit play, adjust the volume and sit.

I cant speak for anyone else but for me, if my mood is wrong music just doesn't sound right. Some nights I listen to my music and I am in heaven and other's I will look at the speakers and wonder wtf. When I used to drink music always sounded great LOL. I don't think temp has anything to do with it.

Yeah, I think that's probably it. She had pretty high hopes too, expecting a concert from 2 towers.
I turned my subs on last night and got them sounding pretty good but I'll need to move them up to the front half of the room.
I have issues, think I need to start eating better, sleeping more and drinking less. It's getting busy early this year and I can't keep my head on straight...
I have to set limits to my posting too, lol, I was looking yesterday and I had made the last post in several threads here (6 on 1 page).
No promises...

Stress causes overall irritation. As I become more ancient, I find that I have less patience (ie, being #10 in line at the supermarket) & become irritated more easily at conditions of our modern lifestyle.

Anything that I do in an irritated state is not as good as if I'm my normal mellow self, ha!

Similarly, if I'm demonstrating my systems to someone, they never seem to sound as good nor as dynamic as they do when I'm the sole listener - a latent inferiority complex? Weird...

TAM

+1 to this. I always feel awkward doing auditions to strangers. I figure my system is half decent but I'm the broken link in showing it off.

I've had my M80HP's (with new tweeters - thanks, Brent!) for several days now and I'm very happy with them. Everything my V2's did, these do better. Lord knows I put those speakers through the rock n' roll wringer. Do speakers get tired? The HP's seem to do more with a little less power. They still need a sub to sound good in my large listening room but, strangely, my old Boston sub seems to sound better with them.

Anyway, I'm glad I did the trade-up and I highly recommend the HP's!

I concur with your findings. The new HP80 seem to do more with less strain.

My good friend came by to feel out the system again. We played quite a few songs in 2.0 channel and then again in 2.1 just to see how much difference she noticed from her first (hatred laden) visit.
She did notice the tighter bass in 2.0 but really liked it best with 2 of 4 subs. 4 works, 2 is better. Getting 4 to sound right has proven to be very difficult.
Until tonight I had not had my system up to -10 in the new room. She ended up listening at -7.5 and was happy (dancing in the dark) with the sound.
Funny she liked it and all I could notice was how the room needed some reflection control in front of the screen.
I need to bring them together too. 8' on center was too close (when listening at 15'), 9' on center is too far apart (when listening at 11').
I'm really enjoying the current setup. That said I will be moving them back 1', lowering them by 3 inches and will move them together to 8'6" on center this weekend.

Once a season, I create an effort at it to rationalize time here to Joyce.

You really shouldn't have to ask Mark's wife for anything. She lets him get away with murder, so I think she's probably cool with whatever you're up to.

Just once.

Ok, twice.

But you can't prove anything without the bodies.

I was wondering where bbiggie had gotten off to. So, who's the other vic?

Seriously, who resurrects a sig line? Tom, what did I tell you about JP's failing memory? See, here it is, happening live!

Hi, Everybody!

Bob, I am happy to change my spots again. I have fixed the sig line for the low price of $129.95!

Check out my reviews on Vitals.com!

His only review by a patient said, "As long as I don't get the duck tape wet, my bones don't rub against my inner organs at all." Excellent! Did you go to Duke together?

Hey, scroll down for the other review, from Mr. McGreg. I thought it was a nice touch, in reference to the character from the fourth season episode, "Homer's Triple Bypass", wiki linky

You mean to the ad for "Addiction Doctors?"

My sig says want, not need!

You bastard!

Last night I finished tweaking the room. Too bad I can't listen to the changes until Monday night, Its going to be a long wait.
I stacked two of 4 subs in the left rear corner (that have some output but otherwise should be sold), I got the new (DIY) corner bass traps installed in the front corners(thicker, wider and taller), new tweeters installed, doubled up the shelf below each unit, took out 7 inches of rise from below each HP, placed Roxul below the shelves they are sitting on (tight fit) and went back to 8' on center (2' from the side wall to the center of the tweeter). Still 4' exactly from the front baffle to the rear wall.
I still haven't watched a Daddy movie in this new room, I'm trying to get 2 channel sounding the way it did (or better) first.
Crazy how work keeps us from the things we'd rather be doing...

So after the M80 big hole unboxing drama, I hooked up my new M80 v4 High Powers, and they're sounding mighty fine.


image url upload

But stepping back a ways, I've owned the M80v3s since Nov 2011, and have been kicking myself recently b/c I didn't feed them properly.

The M80 v3 were my first "real speaker" after owning countless other CE store boomy towers from Polk, Cerwin Vega, JBL, etc. I originally bought the M60, wanted more umph, so returned them for the M80s.

I paired these speakers with what I thought was pretty good equipment at the time, a Marantz 8003 processor and Emotiva's 300wpc amp.

To supplement the bottom end, I have dual 18" Chase Home Theater subs powered by a 1,000 watt Dayton audio amp. My current display is a 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma. It all makes for a pretty satisfying home theater experience.

What I never really had, though, was 2-channel satisfaction. The M80s driven by the Marantz and Emotiva were beyond loud, but were shouty, dry, not musical at all. You can see in the picture the equipment I've since added to the room - a Chord Hugo DAC and two nearly 40 year old McIntosh's - MC2505 amp and C35preamp.

Same tires, different engine, Holy Smokes. I cannot stress the difference these components have made in finally giving me "the sound" I've been looking for.

And so, the "kicking" part.. all these years I've been looking at the Axioms with a sigh, yet another loud box. Where was that musicality I read about in reviews?

After I heard how the v3's sounded with my new gear, of course I had to upgrade and hear the v4's new tweeter, new crossover, and bookoo HP drivers. To my ears, the v4 is more neutral, flatter than v3, at least as they sound now, brand new out of the box. This isn't a criticism, I think it sounds good.

The new bass... the new bass.. it's thunderous. And it's lower and cleaner than the v3s. It hits lower with greater ease. This upgrade was worthwhile.

But to end, to circle back, I'm enjoying my Axiom speakers with music just a ton more now. Obviously it required a considerable investment in upstream gear, but the bottom line is that the speakers "scaled up" alongside my electronics quality.

Damn good product, very happy.

Looks great. Sounds like the system is really coming together.

Until I saw that pic I had forgotten how deep M80s are.

Very happy with my M 80 H.P.'s .... running an Onkyo 838 and so far (to my noob ears) they impress me with their versatility, clean clear sound and good base. I've always wanted a good sounding HiFi, I was sick of listening to boom boxes in my home.

Congrats.

I have had my M80v4 HP's for over six months now and I am very pleased with them and the low end performance. I find the bass to be tight and accurate and they go lower and produce low frequencies much better than my old speakers. And I find them to be very neutral and easy to listen to at all volume levels. I won't have purchased them if they didn't offer the HP drivers.

I believe they did need a break-in period, which had much to do with me getting used to listen to them after listing to the same Infinity's they replaced for over 20 years.

My new 120 watt Pioneer A/V receiver drives them nicely and they can reach a volume where ear tells my brain that the music is too loud.

Its been a while but I finally took the time last night.
Couldnt play CD's because we moved the BD upstairs and the PS4 won't so I plugged in an old IPhone and sat back.
About 4 songs in I found peace.
Long live the M80HP.