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#400012 - 01/13/14 08:31 AM reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help
troyd Offline
local

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 288
Ok,
first I am trying to understand these graphs and where it is that these M100 are so much better.

First of all on the M100 waht deos the 52: M100 LW mean and the 53: M100 SP ? same thin on all actually LW and SP.

Now on the M100 the real only big difference I see is the M100's roll of at 87db smoother. whereas, the M80 drop at 7050 is like almost a dbl volumn drop, then it increases to about 35 hz at 85db. before they roll off practically the same.
I guess it is that dip between 40 - 60 that is bigg, if your listening with no subs. Otherwise, I would think it a moot point as the subs cut in at say 80hz and it will be un-noticeable.
_________________________
HK 3490
M80 HG Cherry
2x Energy ESW10 Subs

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#400013 - 01/13/14 08:36 AM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: troyd]
troyd Offline
local

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 288
I have to do two posts cause the box is small and I cannot see what I am typing.
The other part is they both seem to have a drop around 300hz that would be noticable as it is around 3db difference and that is twice the splnow between the 400k mark and 1.5k it seems and is alot more flatter with the M100 than the M80. However, they both are within a 1db which shoud not be noticalbe at all.However, from 1.5k to 10k it looks like the M80 rule here as the M100 drop is about 3db and that's noticeable, right ?
_________________________
HK 3490
M80 HG Cherry
2x Energy ESW10 Subs

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#400030 - 01/13/14 01:40 PM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: troyd]
troyd Offline
local

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 288
Originally Posted By: troyd
Ok,
first I am trying to understand these graphs and where it is that these M100 are so much better.

First of all on the M100 waht deos the 52: M100 LW mean and the 53: M100 SP ? same thin on all actually LW and SP.

Now on the M100 the real only big difference I see is the M100's roll of at 87db smoother. whereas, the M80 drop at 7050 is like almost a dbl volumn drop, then it increases to about 35 hz at 85db. before they roll off practically the same.
I guess it is that dip between 40 - 60 that is bigg, if your listening with no subs. Otherwise, I would think it a moot point as the subs cut in at say 80hz and it will be un-noticeable.


Holy Crap .... I got to start proof reading.

First of all on the M100s what does the 52: M100 LW and the 53: M100 SP mean ? same thing on all freq charts, actually

Now on the M100 speakers the real only big difference I see is the M100's roll off at about 60hz smoothly. Whereas, the M80 drop at 70 to 53hz is like almost a double volumn drop, then it increases at 53 to 35 hz upto 85db. before they roll off practically the same as the M100s.

I guess it is that dip between 70 - 53hz that is bigg, if your listening with no subs. Otherwise, I would think it a moot point as the subs cut in at say 80hz and it will be un-noticeable
_________________________
HK 3490
M80 HG Cherry
2x Energy ESW10 Subs

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#400033 - 01/13/14 02:16 PM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: troyd]
exlabdriver Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 809
troy:

I spend a lot of time proof reading & I still miss stuff, ha!

Perhaps you are beating yourself up by over-analyzing a lot of this technical stuff. The best looking graphs in the world immediately go out the window as soon as the speakers interact with the room. Gizmos like Audyssey can help to a certain extent to smooth things out but reaching the holy grail of perfect sound is quite elusive & can be very expensive.

As I've have gotten older (more mature?) my appetite for constantly tweeking & upgrading to find audio nirvana has diminished. Now I acquire the gear that I like, tweek minimally with Audyssey and/or by ear, & then leave it all alone & enjoy.

With my 3 Axiom setups, I feel absolutely no desire to 'upgrade' (whatever that is) as they more than please me in the way that I use them. My wife & I just watched the latest remastered 6 Blu Rays of the Star Wars series. They were visually stunning & most impressive sonically. Several times during our marathon my wife mentioned that 'The house is shaking!'. All this with a modest system being run at -10 Db in a medium size room.

Good luck in your quest...

TAM

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#400036 - 01/13/14 03:55 PM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: troyd]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1806
Troyd,

I upgraded from M60's to LFR's. Which are somewhat similar to the M100's. I would say the biggest difference to me is the presence that the speaker generates within the room. This is a hard experience to quantify within a graph. As, graphs do not convey the "feel" that one gets by having a certain type of speaker over another.

I guess the best analogy that i could make would be a car analogy, Please bear with me.. the smaller M80 would be like a Turbo 6 cylinder, where the M100 would be like a finely tuned V8, or V10. While the turbo 6 may generate the same numbers on a graph.. The V8 or V10 are a VASTLY different experience….


Hopefully I’ve helped a little bit.




Yes, my other hobby involves cars….

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#400038 - 01/13/14 04:18 PM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: troyd]
troyd Offline
local

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 288
yes, I think when they first came out Brent said they were a lot better. But, he is part of sales ..
I trust his opinion though. think, Axiom is one company that everyone who works there, even it is there own business is not bias to there products and tell you like it is.

I would like to hear from some owners who have these now. Specially ones that had M80's

be real nice if someone from Nova Scotia had them and would do a audition too lol
_________________________
HK 3490
M80 HG Cherry
2x Energy ESW10 Subs

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#400085 - 01/14/14 10:08 PM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: troyd]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10307
Troy, the "LW" in the charts stands for "listening window" and the "SP" for "sound power". The listening window measures the sound over a relatively narrow(typically 30 degrees to the left and right and 10 degrees up and down)frontal area. The sound power measurement uses many more measurements(70 is a typical number mentioned by Dr. Toole)taken at angles all around the front, back, top and bottom of the speaker(these are in an anechoic chamber and include no room reflections). This is a measure of the total acoustical energy that the speaker sends into the room, not just the frontal portion of the output.

This is significant, because contrary to some misunderstanding sometimes seen, sounds at a live performance don't reach us simply from the front, but also from sides, back, ceiling and floor(unless listening outside)in the form of reflected ambience and are important for the overall enjoyment of music. The closer that the sound power curve is to the listening window curve, the better the overall dispersion ability of the speaker in reflective listening rooms.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#400117 - 01/15/14 07:46 PM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: troyd]
JBG Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 367
My Impressions M80 vs M100
I had M80's first versions and now own the M100's. The family of curves have certainty changed over time, but what I can say is that the bass is more present, I've always felt that the M80's lacked a little in the bass dept. so from my perspective these M100's are Axiom perfect little secret.. are they worth the upgrade? if you have an older version of the M80's like 1 or 2 I would have to say yes... if you had version 3 hummm that would be a good one.. M80's HP vs M100... I would have to say M100's all day long

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#400124 - 01/15/14 09:29 PM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: JBG]
JBG Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 367
Originally Posted By: JBG
My Impressions M80 vs M100
I had M80's first versions and now own the M100's. The family of curves have certainty changed over time, but what I can say is that the bass is more present, I've always felt that the M80's lacked a little in the bass dept. so from my perspective these M100's are Axiom perfect little secret.. are they worth the upgrade? if you have an older version of the M80's like 1 or 2 I would have to say yes... if you had version 3 hummm that would be a good one.. M80's HP vs M100... I would have to say M100's all day long


a good review here the biggar review

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#400320 - 01/24/14 04:28 AM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: JBG]
Crimson Wrath Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 64
Loc: Newton, NC
So with that opinion it's probably a safe assumption that going from M60s v2 to the LFR1100s would be a noticeable amount of bass, even with multiple subwoofers?
_________________________
M60|VP150|2xQS8|PSA XS30+Epik Empire|Pioneer Kuro 6010FD|PS3|Denon AVR-X4000|Parasound 5250v.2|

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#400323 - 01/24/14 09:03 AM Re: reading the M80 vs M100 freq. Graphs help [Re: Crimson Wrath]
JBG Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 367
Originally Posted By: Crimson Wrath
So with that opinion it's probably a safe assumption that going from M60s v2 to the LFR1100s would be a noticeable amount of bass, even with multiple subwoofers?


The LFR1100s are DSP controlled & are a different kind of speaker also.. Omni directional so they are quite different than the M60s (like comparing apples & oranges) but M60 v2 vs M100s you will have noticeable amount of bass that is certain
_________________________
Epic 100 * 180HP * 500 all V4 * 4x QS8's * MRX-500 + XPA-5 * Epson 3010 * Shakers * Harmony 1100

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