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#400862 - 02/10/14 12:21 PM New Tweeter
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
In response to the new tweeter questions over in the Home Theatre section I thought I would switch it to the What’s New category.

The tweeter change is happening across the entire line. I have put a picture below of the standard round faceplate version. The new tweeter has a die cast aluminum face plate for better rigidity and cooling, a larger rear chamber to lower the resonance frequency further below the crossover region, and a new horn design that Andrew developed to be smoother off-axis above 12 kHz.

I noticed some were not sure about the new look but it could be more of a QS4 thing. The consensus around the factory was that it is much nicer looking.


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#400864 - 02/10/14 12:38 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
Can't wait to open these boxes...
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#400865 - 02/10/14 12:52 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1027
I really like the look...

TAM

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#400871 - 02/10/14 05:58 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Me, too.

Crossover change required or not?
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#400874 - 02/10/14 06:27 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: tomtuttle]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
There is no crossover change required.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#400875 - 02/10/14 06:36 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
oooh i like it! smile

Can't wait!. Will be trading up to the m100's sometime this year
_________________________
2 Axiom M80s v3
1 Axiom VP160 v3
2 Paradigm ADP-150
Pioneer SC-61
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#400883 - 02/11/14 12:30 AM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: Ian
There is no crossover change required.


Ooh, nice. Maybe I'll order some and swap mine out.

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#400887 - 02/11/14 10:03 AM Re: New Tweeter [Re: CV]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Hi Ian, did you make some for the VP160 because they are not round. smile
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#400895 - 02/11/14 01:13 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: SBrown]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
Yes, we have all the configurations as before.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#400900 - 02/11/14 06:26 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
How much are the tweeters ? Do they do any improvements to the sound ?
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#400901 - 02/11/14 06:55 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: TroyD]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
The new tweeters cost $78 each. If you are running your system with a receiver then I would say there is no need to be replacing the tweeters with the new ones. If you have big power and like to play it loud or have a large space to fill then the benefits of the new tweeter could be something to consider.
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Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#400932 - 02/12/14 11:42 AM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Thanks Ian
$400 to replace the tweeters in my M80's

I do not have a power amp yet, but the plans are to get a ADA1250 in the future.
I like my music a little louder and two channel and perfer the subs off. However, I like a bit more bottom end than the M80 v3 are giving. which is why I have the subs on but low lev.

I might be better off to take the upgrade to the M80HP or M100 not sure.

I don't care for the subs with music sounds too boomy and like it is over emphazing the bass. Not tight. That can very well be the type of subs I have though.

My Reciever can two settings one calibrated for Music on one blu-ray and a second setting for movies on another Blu-ray. These settings I slect either L/R no sub for music or 7.1 for movies.
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#400943 - 02/12/14 01:18 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
bjski Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 12
Just got my new HP M80 with the old tweeters? In fact unpacked my replacement speaker yesterday for my damage one. $400 to upgrade? It's almost worth trading my new speakers in and getting M100 with the new tweeter?


When are they going into production? Yes, I'm using separates......thought's?

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#400944 - 02/12/14 01:21 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
"all products have been shipping with the new tweeter for the past few weeks"

Looks like I just missed out on the new tweeters.
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#400956 - 02/12/14 05:33 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: bjski]
bjski Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 12
Originally Posted By: bjski
Just got my new HP M80 with the old tweeters? In fact unpacked my replacement speaker yesterday for my damage one. $400 to upgrade? It's almost worth trading my new speakers in and getting M100 with the new tweeter?


When are they going into production? Yes, I'm using separates......thought's?


Great customer service! Received an email stating that Axiom will be sending me the new tweeter's. All company's should have this customer service. Thank's again Axiom.
Cheers

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#400958 - 02/12/14 06:05 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
Philippe Offline
local

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 281
Is the grill removable?
Does it provide a better sound off axis? I am saying better because I think it is where the sound is lacking when you are over 20-30% off axis. I am asking because I usually listing music off axis when I am not sit in my stereo sweet spot.
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#400959 - 02/12/14 06:10 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: bjski]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
Originally Posted By: bjski
Originally Posted By: bjski
Just got my new HP M80 with the old tweeters? In fact unpacked my replacement speaker yesterday for my damage one. $400 to upgrade? It's almost worth trading my new speakers in and getting M100 with the new tweeter?


When are they going into production? Yes, I'm using separates......thought's?


Great customer service! Received an email stating that Axiom will be sending me the new tweeter's. All company's should have this customer service. Thank's again Axiom.
Cheers


I received the same thoughtful message form Debbie at Axiom.
I can't say enough good things about them.
_________________________




I spend a lot of time trying to find a way to save it.

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#400970 - 02/12/14 07:33 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1027
Philippe:

I can't speak for Axiom, but I would imagine that the new tweeter went through exhaustive testing & tweeking in their anechoic chamber to ensure that all of their performance requirements were met.

Not many speaker manufacturers have the luxury of having a large & sophisticated anechoic chamber & test equipment on site...

TAM

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#400975 - 02/12/14 08:47 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
Philippe Offline
local

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 281
Originally Posted By: Ian
The new tweeters cost $78 each. If you are running your system with a receiver then I would say there is no need to be replacing the tweeters with the new ones. If you have big power and like to play it loud or have a large space to fill then the benefits of the new tweeter could be something to consider.


Actually my question or should I say my expectation would be to guess this new tweeter should sound better if I can’t dare to say? Maybe Axiom will stick at this very moment mostly to the original sound but will develop/improve the sound in a near future (v4?)

I have always found the tweeter from Axiom to be the less good component of their speakers (And when I say less good does not mean bad at all) But these new development about those tweeters sound refreshing and I hope Axiom team will take the most of it that just claim it can handle louder sound like Ian says. smile

The only thing I can tell is that I’ve heard a substantial improvement on the V3 over the V2 (M3 model) cool
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Nad C356 DAC & C515
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Grant Fidelity RPF-120 MKII
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#400978 - 02/12/14 10:13 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1027
I have 11 V3 tweeters (not the revised units) throughout my house & they all sound just fine to me. They do their job admirably just like they are supposed to IMO...

TAM

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#400979 - 02/12/14 10:18 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
JBG Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 406
all products have been shipping with the new tweeter for the past few weeks"

Looks like I just missed out on the new tweeters also by a few weeks on my new M100's. frown


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#400981 - 02/12/14 10:22 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1027
I don't think that you are losing out in any way sound wise...

TAM

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#400985 - 02/12/14 11:04 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: brwsaw]
gjtphx Offline
regular

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted By: brwsaw
Originally Posted By: bjski
Originally Posted By: bjski
Just got my new HP M80 with the old tweeters? In fact unpacked my replacement speaker yesterday for my damage one. $400 to upgrade? It's almost worth trading my new speakers in and getting M100 with the new tweeter?


When are they going into production? Yes, I'm using separates......thought's?


Great customer service! Received an email stating that Axiom will be sending me the new tweeter's. All company's should have this customer service. Thank's again Axiom.
Cheers


I received the same thoughtful message form Debbie at Axiom.
I can't say enough good things about them.


I also received my new M80 HP's couple of weeks back but they have the old tweeters .. Hope I too will get a mail soon .. smile
_________________________
2 M80 HP, 1 VP160 & 4 QS8
Emotiva XPA-2, XPA-5
Denon 3312ci
Oppo BDP-103
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#400991 - 02/13/14 04:12 AM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Philippe]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
Hi Philippe,

The off axis performance is rarely improved by the tweeter as tweeters in general tend to have good dispersion in the critical band. Improving the off axis of a tweeter design will normally be in the very high frequencies that are pushing the upper limits of our hearing (and the new tweeter has this improvement off axis due to the new shape of the face plate coming off the dome).

A good way to improve your off axis performance would be to go to a model like the M22 or M60 through M100. And even though these models will all give you a better off axis performance than you currently have, if you really want to have great off axis performance the way to go is one of the models in the LFR series. As Digital Trends commented in their professional review “the omni-directional LFR1100’s allowed us to move almost anywhere in the room and hear a balanced stereo sound … like those old portraits that stare at you no matter where you sit in the room”.
_________________________
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President & Chief Engineer

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#400999 - 02/13/14 10:27 AM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Whoa, it would cost me 702.00$ without taxes for the LFRs and VP160. I was trying to save for another ADA1500 amp, here I thought I was doing good. Haha
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#401007 - 02/13/14 02:32 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: gjtphx]
gjtphx Offline
regular

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted By: gjtphx
I also received my new M80 HP's couple of weeks back but they have the old tweeters .. Hope I too will get a mail soon .. smile


I just received the PM from Debbie that I was expecting and an email from Brent. Thanks Axiom !
_________________________
2 M80 HP, 1 VP160 & 4 QS8
Emotiva XPA-2, XPA-5
Denon 3312ci
Oppo BDP-103
Onkyo C-7030
Arcam irDAC

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#401008 - 02/13/14 02:59 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
Philippe Offline
local

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 281
Thanks Ian for the explications. I am not going to change the M3 anytime soon and will swap for the new tweeters surely. I will certainly get a higher high end amplifier to just take the most of those M3. I think they would also gain from a better stand ! smile

I am that impressed


Edited by Philippe (02/13/14 03:00 PM)
_________________________
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#401009 - 02/13/14 03:51 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1027
Phillipe:

My M3s are on Axiom's FMS 24 stands.

Very stable, heavy duty, good looking & the top plate is specifically shaped for Axiom bookshelfs that serve to attach them very securely...

TAM

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#401052 - 02/14/14 03:02 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
D_Rick Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 12/18/13
Posts: 13
Loc: British Columbia
I also just received notification from Debbie that I have new tweeters coming for my M80HP's - you gotta love the service from these people!!!

Rick
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#401092 - 02/15/14 08:32 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
eggman Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 13
Loc: Oklahoma
Ian,

Have you guys tested tweeters without a guard/grille? Some of us don't have to worry about kids or pets poking them and I'm wondering if there would be a sonic advantage to eliminating the guard.

Thanks!

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#401093 - 02/15/14 10:23 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: eggman]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Egg, hopefully Ian can add more details about changes in the tweeter. However, on your specific question, he's already pointed out in another thread that the screen serves as a support for the diffuser which promotes smoother and wider high frequency response. Without this, the tweeter would be at a sonic disadvantage. So, it's only function isn't just to protect the dome from damage.
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#401112 - 02/16/14 01:30 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: JohnK]
eggman Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 13
Loc: Oklahoma
Thanks for the information, JohnK.

Would you happen to know if Axiom makes all their speaker parts in-house? Just curious.

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#401113 - 02/16/14 01:42 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Yes, they do. They own a factory in China that does some of the building. Final speaker assembly and some driver assembly is done in Canada.
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#401252 - 02/20/14 01:05 AM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
MichaelTrottar Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 84
is that for a better sound quality....?
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#401255 - 02/20/14 09:09 AM Re: New Tweeter [Re: MichaelTrottar]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
There are two main reasons for manufacturing our own parts; sound quality and consistency.

The sound quality is achieved by having more options available to us when designing the finished product. If you are selecting your drivers from already available parts then you only have the crossover and the cabinet as variables that you can completely control in the design process. This will put limitations on how refined you can make your family of curves (assuming you have the facility to measure them at all). The family of curves is by far and away the thing that affects the sound quality of your finished product the most. The family of curves refers to all the amplitude response curves taken in a sphere around the loudspeaker in an anechoic environment and the various averages built from all these response curves. And finally the interpretation of all of these curves and averages which needs to be determined using Double Blind Listen Testing.

Consistency of the acoustical measurements of each part manufactured is what guarantees that every finished product you make is exactly like the original design reference. Without this there is really no point to spending a lot of time refining your original design. Consistency of the end acoustical measurement of each part in driver manufacturing is not an easy thing to achieve. Manufacturing our own drivers allows us to batch manufacture them as opposed to the usual assembly line. Batch manufacturing means that we can test each batch for acoustical consistency and never have thousands of drive units either finished or partly finished before doing a full suite of acoustical tests.
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#401281 - 02/21/14 11:15 AM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
Ian,

Would it make any noticeable audio difference to change up to the newer tweeters in an existing set of V3 M80s and 180 and if so, could it be done?


Update: it would seem you already answered this question a previous post, missed it. Thx


Edited by casey01 (02/21/14 11:18 AM)

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#401301 - 02/22/14 12:49 AM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
Got mine today.
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I spend a lot of time trying to find a way to save it.

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#401624 - 03/03/14 02:38 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
shawn_b Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2
So I have been building out a set of Axiom speakers to replace my old speakers. I have 4 V3 QS8s and 1 V3 VP150. I will be purchasing the M22 on wall speakers for the front. Should I be concerned that the tweeters in the VP150/M22s will be different? Would it be worth upgrading the VP150, or would the difference be negligible?

Thanks,

Shawn.

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#401627 - 03/03/14 04:22 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: shawn_b]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
From the point of view of the performance they will all match very well together. I assume you are not driving this system with huge power so you are not picking up any advantages on that front either. But from a cosmetic point of view the look is quite different so you may want to upgrade for that reason.
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President & Chief Engineer

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#402381 - 04/02/14 05:44 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
AlaskanAVGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 72
Originally Posted By: Ian
There is no crossover change required.


I just got off the phone with Brent Tombari and he told me directly that you cannot upgrade the QS8 v3 to the new V4 Tweeter because of the Crossover.

Is this correct.... Because i'm getting conflicting answers and am wondering if this is because some V4 speakers have a change in Crossovers while others remained the same?
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#402383 - 04/02/14 06:14 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10901
Loc: Central NH
One thing you should know, Alaska, is that Axiom doesn't suddenly produce a new model with a new designation. They continuously make improvements and, after awhile, think "Well, we've changed this and that and the other thing....I guess we should differentiate them at this point with a new designation.

There have been people annoyed in the past because they bought speakers before a "new version" was announced, only to find out that their 6-month old speakers actually have incorporated all the newer changes.

I'm not saying that is or is not the case for you, I'm just saying that there are little evolutions going on all the time, and there's really no sudden date where a "new version" is introduced.

I'm not talking mosel numbers, just versions.

Anyway, that might be the source of some of the confusion.
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#402384 - 04/02/14 06:49 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
AlaskanAVGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 72
That still hasn't answered my basic question...is their a change to the CROSSOVER on the QS8 Tweeter from V3 to the new V4 Tweeter?

Because if their is not I will purchase new Tweeters $78ea and upgrade accordingly.

It's hard to be familiar when the information is not readily available.
_________________________
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#402387 - 04/02/14 07:31 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: AlaskanAVGuy]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
Hi AlaskanAVGuy,

I can clarify this for you. The new tweeter can be retrofitted into any of the older models without a crossover change. This said there is still the decision, depending on how old your QS8s are, that there may have been other changes along the way besides just the tweeter in which case it may make sense to utilize the trade-in option to get all the upgrades as opposed to just the tweeters. We can check your purchase date in our system and let you know all the changes.
_________________________
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President & Chief Engineer

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#402388 - 04/02/14 07:34 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1027
Reading on the V4 page - it states that:

'Every crossover in the entire line has been modified to incorporate research discoveries made in the family of curves.'

http://www.axiomaudio.com/version4

From that, I would say that the Xover in the QS8V3 is different from the new QS8V4s.

Personally, I feel that changing out the tweeters would not be worth the expense (more so if Xovers are involved) for the resulting subtle audio change, especially in surround speakers that are used minimally in most movie mixes anyway. Thankfully, I'm happy with my V3s as they are...

TAM

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#402392 - 04/02/14 10:24 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1027
Disregard my ramblings about Xovers above. Ian clarified everything nicely...

TAM

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#405684 - 06/20/14 10:00 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
AudioguyBurl Offline
regular

Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 5
Picked up my new V4 M22 on walls, VP150, EP500, & QS8's today. Out of the box first impressions there is just "more" information. Midrange is slightly more articulate compared to V3's, and the top end is very different to me. The new sub seems tighter than the V3. I haven't re-ran my Anthem ARC setup, but first impressions are very good.

Debbie took the time on a Friday afternoon (with beautiful weather to boot) and gave me a detailed factory tour; it was awesome. What a professional(!) who also loves her job.

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#405691 - 06/21/14 02:34 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: Ian]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Ian
Hi AlaskanAVGuy,

I can clarify this for you. The new tweeter can be retrofitted into any of the older models without a crossover change. This said there is still the decision, depending on how old your QS8s are, that there may have been other changes along the way besides just the tweeter in which case it may make sense to utilize the trade-in option to get all the upgrades as opposed to just the tweeters. We can check your purchase date in our system and let you know all the changes.


Ian,

Perhaps this has been asked before but, would an exchange of tweeters in a VP180 V3 for the newer design make any noticeable difference in sound and/or off axis response and if so, how would I be able to purchase the new ones and at what cost?

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#405693 - 06/21/14 05:20 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: casey01]
oakvillematt Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 186
Loc: Oakville, Canada
Originally Posted By: casey01
Ian,

Perhaps this has been asked before but, would an exchange of tweeters in a VP180 V3 for the newer design make any noticeable difference in sound and/or off axis response and if so, how would I be able to purchase the new ones and at what cost?


If you can let me know as well.. I have one of the V3 VP180 center speakers, and would be curious to know what the cost of new tweeters would be.
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People are like a box of chocolates. It's hard to tell initially which ones are nuts.

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#405694 - 06/21/14 07:21 PM Re: New Tweeter [Re: oakvillematt]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Ian says the cost on the second page of this thread.
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