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#406335 - 07/25/14 09:54 PM M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
M3 v4 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers

Just starting a thread since I'm surprised no one else did.

The ceiling in my basement is too low, but maybe I'll end up with some of these at some point just because. I'd love to have a room that would make sense for Dolby Atmos, but these might work better than the Algonquins I bought for the bathroom if I decide I want more storage options on the walls.

In any case, it's a product I'm glad they made, even if I have no immediate use for them.

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#406336 - 07/25/14 10:07 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1190
Loc: Whitehorse YT
I would like to see more pics of this. Where exactly are they hiding the tweet.
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I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#406337 - 07/25/14 10:17 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
In the newsletter, it says it's a coaxial tweeter, basically. It's held in front of the woofer.
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#406340 - 07/26/14 02:00 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1190
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Ah , I didn't get the memo . Usually we get some advanced tidbits ,this is totally out of character. I did post about 4 weeks back asking about atmos based speakers. Here

Never did get a reply but they were obviously in the works.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#406341 - 07/26/14 02:16 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: Socketman]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: Socketman
I would like to see more pics of this. Where exactly are they hiding the tweet.


A few pics here.

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#406383 - 07/29/14 09:55 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 216
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Brent told me that they were in the works a couple of months ago when I mentioned that I was looking to get some for a games room which I wanted to wire up for surround sound for playing video games. However, there were no sign of them when I went up to Axiom to pick up my new LFR's. It is certainly good that they are now available!

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#406387 - 07/29/14 01:30 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5872
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I think they come pre-packaged with elevator music.

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#406393 - 07/30/14 12:54 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
I can't wait to hear the difference concentric makes.
I wonder what else is in the works.
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#406396 - 07/30/14 08:22 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Rew452 Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 2
Really glad to see the Atmos speakers from you!

But Really need On-Ceiling type, like the M3 On-Wall.

Are they too in the works?

Wayne

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#406397 - 07/30/14 02:25 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
They will no doubt be popular with the headbanger crowd.

Sorry, couldn't resist....
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With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#406399 - 07/31/14 09:49 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Rew452 Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 2
Ha! Ha! Good one.

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#406476 - 08/08/14 10:59 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
Waiting on my pair. Starting the home theater over from scratch. Gonna go with an Atmos capable AVR.

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#406478 - 08/08/14 12:39 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4474
Loc: Marion, IA
Maybe someday I will jump on these speakers and do an Atmos setup, but I am not ready to scrap my decent receiver for a $1200+ Atmos ready one, and toss another $800 with of speakers into the room. My wife would absolutely kill me, plus it just isn't in the "responsible" cards right now.

Starting from scratch sure opens up some possibilities, especially with the lower introduction price until August 11. Of course, if you are going to pay a premium for the receiver already to get Atmos, why not go with 4 in-ceilings for the optimum experience?
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#406481 - 08/08/14 01:24 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: nickbuol]
Hansang Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 578
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: nickbuol
Maybe someday I will jump on these speakers and do an Atmos setup, but I am not ready to scrap my decent receiver for a $1200+ Atmos ready one, and toss another $800 with of speakers into the room. My wife would absolutely kill me, plus it just isn't in the "responsible" cards right now.

Starting from scratch sure opens up some possibilities, especially with the lower introduction price until August 11. Of course, if you are going to pay a premium for the receiver already to get Atmos, why not go with 4 in-ceilings for the optimum experience?


Nick, that's what accidental power surges are for! smile

"I really don't want to spend more money honey...but we took a hit and what can we do?"

LOL
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Denon 3808, EPIC80/500 Speakers

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#406482 - 08/08/14 01:25 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Hansang Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 578
Loc: New York
Guess I need to change my .sig to say 4520 and not 3808!
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Denon 3808, EPIC80/500 Speakers

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#406484 - 08/08/14 10:04 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: Hansang]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4474
Loc: Marion, IA
Originally Posted By: Hansang
Originally Posted By: nickbuol
Maybe someday I will jump on these speakers and do an Atmos setup, but I am not ready to scrap my decent receiver for a $1200+ Atmos ready one, and toss another $800 with of speakers into the room. My wife would absolutely kill me, plus it just isn't in the "responsible" cards right now.

Starting from scratch sure opens up some possibilities, especially with the lower introduction price until August 11. Of course, if you are going to pay a premium for the receiver already to get Atmos, why not go with 4 in-ceilings for the optimum experience?


Nick, that's what accidental power surges are for! smile

"I really don't want to spend more money honey...but we took a hit and what can we do?"

LOL


Good point... Thanks!
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#406486 - 08/09/14 12:51 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: rprice54]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: rprice54
Waiting on my pair. Starting the home theater over from scratch. Gonna go with an Atmos capable AVR.


Keep us in the loop on how it goes!

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#406488 - 08/09/14 06:51 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Andrew Jones concentric speakers with the bandwidth limited up-firing driver or a variation of that type of setup is the only way Dolby Atmos is coming into my home. There is a 0% chance of even the idea of punching holes in the ceiling for speakers.
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#406894 - 08/29/14 12:14 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1027
I continue to read from the 'experts' on some other forums who continue to trash horizontal CC speakers because of supposed comb filtering & lobing problems with these designs. IMO these anomalies are minimal at best in most HT rooms but they are a big & nasty deal for some.

I wonder if the technology that Axiom has developed in the M3 Ceilings with co-located drivers could be implemented into a smallish cabinet for yet another CC speaker that would be more easily placed into many HT Stands (like the VP100) vs the large cabinets above that model. Would this design largely eliminate these perceived problems?...

TAM

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#406900 - 08/29/14 07:06 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: exlabdriver]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
I continue to read from the 'experts' on some other forums who continue to trash horizontal CC speakers because of supposed comb filtering & lobing problems with these designs. IMO these anomalies are minimal at best in most HT rooms but they are a big & nasty deal for some.

I wonder if the technology that Axiom has developed in the M3 Ceilings with co-located drivers could be implemented into a smallish cabinet for yet another CC speaker that would be more easily placed into many HT Stands (like the VP100) vs the large cabinets above that model. Would this design largely eliminate these perceived problems?...

TAM


In theory, if you're only using 1 driver?

Curious what some of those haters are going to say when they work more speakers into their systems when upgrading to Atmos, Auro, UHD, etc.

It would seem to me that its a non issue in all but the largest rooms (which you'd expect to have matching front speakers).

I really like the concept and the potential of the new in ceiling M3.
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#406939 - 09/01/14 06:16 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
cybrsage Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/01/14
Posts: 1
I would love to have angled driver On-Ceiling mounted speakers - I really do not want to cut into my sound silencing barrier.

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#406961 - 09/03/14 06:55 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
any word on shipping? I ordered mine back in July...

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#407095 - 09/09/14 01:29 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
I guess I'm going to do it. The sound barrier is going get a few new holes, hopefully in time for my 2 weeks off at Christmas.
I can't go all Atmos, the bill is too much right now (baby in Nov.)but 5.1 sounds really good so I'm going to install a pair in the top front locations with my current AVR.
I drew it out tonight and was shocked to see the in ceilings will be the same distance from my ears as my surrounds when installed as recommended by dolby.
Ceiling height be dammed...
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It's a joke

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#407243 - 09/16/14 05:19 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
As low as my basement ceiling is (6' 7", generally) I don't see being able to use the M3 in-ceiling speakers for Atmos.

From here:

Quote:
Will I always get better Dolby Atmos sound with overhead
speakers?

Dolby Atmos enabled speakers produce slightly diffuse overhead audio that is quite lifelike and, in some cases, preferable to the sound that comes from overhead speakers.

If your ceiling is low or you have to mount your loudspeakers on overhead trusses or brackets, the overhead speakers will be closer to the listening position. The audio may be distracting because you’ll hear exactly which speaker is producing the sound instead of feeling immersed in an atmosphere in which sounds occur naturally overhead.

In this environment, Dolby Atmos enabled speakers may better reproduce the Dolby Atmos sound you would hear in a movie theatre, where the overhead speakers are high in the auditorium, creating a more diffuse experience. Audio experts who have heard Dolby Atmos enabled speakers agree that the sound these produce can be preferable to the sound that
overhead speakers produce.


I don't really want Dolby Atmos enabled speakers, either, since it means switching my ceiling tiles back to something reflective as opposed to absorptive. Since the sound from the ceiling speakers are supposed to be somewhat diffuse as described, I wonder if Axiom could come up with a model for people in my situation. Low ceiling, still wanting the Atmos experience without resorting to the Atmos enabled compromise. Even better for me, specifically, would be 2'x2' panels pre-made for mounting the speakers in and dropping into a standard suspended ceiling grid.

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#407246 - 09/16/14 06:55 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Charles, I think the only reasonable answer is for you to dig the basement a good 2-4 feet deeper, then replace everything you have in it.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#407248 - 09/16/14 07:39 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
If he did that, the alligator pit would have no walls and they would be free to roam. You didn't think this through.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#407252 - 09/16/14 07:58 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10900
Loc: Central NH
Think of the extra exercise afforded by such a setup!
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#407253 - 09/16/14 08:00 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
Mine shipped last Monday. Still stuck in customs...

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#407262 - 09/16/14 01:48 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4474
Loc: Marion, IA
FYI. General statement but, "Atmos Enabled" speakers are actually manufactured to meet a higher set of specifications specifically for Dolby Atmos than regular speakers mounted in/on your ceiling. Not that you can't get better speakers that work on the ceiling, but there isn't much in the way of "needs to meet these Atmos specs" out there. I heard A/B/C demos of 7.1, 7.1.4 with ceiling speakers, and 7.1.4 with Atmos enabled. Couldn't really tell much difference in the good ceiling speakers vs. the Atmos Enabled, but like mentioned above, you need a reflective and flat ceiling.

Height does not HAVE to be 8' and the Dolby guys at CEDIA mentioned that they wished that they left that minimum spec out. It will just be less effective the lower the ceiling, but they said that around 7' you start to lose effectiveness. 6'7" will be tricky.
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#407368 - 09/21/14 11:23 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: nickbuol]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
Originally Posted By: nickbuol
FYI. General statement but, "Atmos Enabled" speakers are actually manufactured to meet a higher set of specifications specifically for Dolby Atmos than regular speakers mounted in/on your ceiling. Not that you can't get better speakers that work on the ceiling, but there isn't much in the way of "needs to meet these Atmos specs" out there. I heard A/B/C demos of 7.1, 7.1.4 with ceiling speakers, and 7.1.4 with Atmos enabled. Couldn't really tell much difference in the good ceiling speakers vs. the Atmos Enabled, but like mentioned above, you need a reflective and flat ceiling.

Height does not HAVE to be 8' and the Dolby guys at CEDIA mentioned that they wished that they left that minimum spec out. It will just be less effective the lower the ceiling, but they said that around 7' you start to lose effectiveness. 6'7" will be tricky.


Nick,

During the Atmos demos did anyone comment on aiming tweeters when ceiling height was less than ideal?
The earliest information provided by Dolby suggested speakers should fire straight down.


Edited by brwsaw (09/21/14 11:27 PM)
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#407402 - 09/23/14 08:22 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
My ceiling M3s finally showed up. Hoping to try them out tomorrow or the next. You can tell its a new product- no manual. Looks pretty straightforward though, once I figured out how to remove the grill. Feels very substantial for a plastic enclosed speaker. I bought these for an Atmos setup. I'm considering these for the surrounds as well.


Edited by rprice54 (09/23/14 08:22 PM)

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#407403 - 09/23/14 11:19 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
I really like the idea of using 34 of them in a Atmos layout.
Its growing on me.
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It's a joke

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#407486 - 09/29/14 02:38 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
Okay, got a chance to compare these a bit to my outdoor M3s. This was the easiest/quickest way I could do a direct A/B comparison. This is not high end audio equip, this is my shop music system. Cheapo Sony AVR, two outdoor M3s (v4), and a cheap 10" sub. The M3s are the most expensive part of the setup. I'm NOT an audiophile, but I like my Axiom speakers (M60s/VP150/EP500 previously) and can appreciate how much better they sound compared to others I tried. I figured the plastic outdoor speakers would be a good comparison to the plastic ceiling speakers.

I have these on a shelf, about 6' up, about 8' apart, and I stood about 10' from the speakers in the center. I used some music from Fireflight, a Christian metal band, with a female (breathy) vocalist and some classical accompaniment, which gave me a wide range of sounds to compare in just a couple of songs. (this is way overkill for ceiling speakers isn't it?).

Trial 1- speakers set to large, sub off. Here the ported regular M3s obviously won with lower end punch. Vocals were still very clear and airy (listen to me [sarcasm]) and the imaging always amazes me. It's like she's singing directly in front of me, I'm looking there, and my eyes don't see a speaker, but my ears and brain tell me she's right in the middle. I was curious how the different tweeter would compare, and it was maybe just a hair less 'real' sounding compared to the regular M3s, but the difference in the vocals was very subtle. The tell, though, was the much more anemic low end- understandably so without a port. Not much punch at all. There was also a good deal of 'plastic' sounding tone with the lower end. I imagine this would go away once these were mounted in a ceiling. Admittedly these were not made to just sit on a bookshelf, so I really can't hold that against them.

Trial 2- set speakers to small, sub on, crossover about 80 (dial on the back of the sub goes from 40-240 without any other marks, so I do my best to get it around 80). Here it was nearly impossible to tell any difference between the two. The plastic tone was gone. The regular M3s still sounded a bit fuller, vocals were more 'real', but I could easily listen to the ceiling speakers in that setup on a regular basis sitting on a shelf. The sound was MUCH closer to the regular M3s with the sub.

So there you go, a very unprofessional review of the new speakers. I think they will do great for my use, overheads in an Atmos setup and will complement my other speakers well. I don't think anyone would use these for main speakers unless you just had to with WAF. Now I just need to decide if I use these for the surrounds as well or in-wall M3s or on wall M3s...

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#407487 - 09/29/14 05:07 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Serenity_Now Offline
local

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 211
Loc: PEI, Canada
Just to note, the frequency response on the low end will change significantly once they are ceiling mounted. The "plastic" tone could have been caused by vibration- again remedied by mounting. Its hard to do an apples to apples comparison if they are not on the same plane I know. blush

Great review and comparison for us! Thanks. cool

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#407675 - 10/17/14 11:32 AM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Serenity_Now Offline
local

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 211
Loc: PEI, Canada
Did you get a chance to mount them up yet? I am considering my choices and wonder what you thought about the mounting process and how the sound changed. If they still seem to fall off at 70ish hz I'll check out other options I guess. Pics?

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#407676 - 10/17/14 12:23 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
I have not. Drywall crew finished today. I won't have any time off until next week to try them out, and right now it's a big echo chamber with 4 walks and concrete floor.

I'm confident they will work as surrounds/tops supported by a subwoofer. I think you would not ideally use these as front L and R main speakers. I get the impression they aren't designed for that anyways.

I went with on wall M3s for surrounds and these for overheads. I couldn't put them in the walls where I wanted for surrounds due to structural supports that couldn't be easily moved.

Once I get the room a little more finished I'll compare the ceilings to the on walls.

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#407677 - 10/17/14 04:41 PM Re: M3 In-Ceiling Loudspeakers [Re: CV]
Serenity_Now Offline
local

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 211
Loc: PEI, Canada
Gotcha. Thanks for the update. I'm looking to use them as the atmos component (like you I think) of a 7.2.4 setup. Anxious to see what you think once your room is finished. I'm months away from Drywall the way things are going so no biggie.

Thanks for your response!

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