Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners classical concert

Alright, I need some help from you classical guys out there. I'm been checking what the Philadelphia Orchestra has playing every once in a while. From my limited experience, I like Wagner and other classical of the loud and thunderous variety. I did a search today and came across this:

September 21, 2004


The Philadelphia Orchestra
Christoph Eschenbach, conductor
Renée Fleming, soprano


Kimmel Center - Verizon Hall


Opening Night 2004

WAGNER Prelude to Act III of Lohengrin
STRAUSS Four Last Songs
DVORAK Symphony No. 8

I know the Wagner piece and really like it. Anyone familiar with the others? What are they like? Are they along the same vein? I'm thinking of getting tickets, but want some more info from you classical guys on those other pieces. I'll probably end up trying to listen to them somewhere first so I'm familiar....I may be able to download them from somewhere to get a taste.

And apparently opening night is more expensive then other days, so there is also this option in January.

January 14-18, 2005


The Philadelphia Orchestra
Christoph Eschenbach, conductor
John Keyes, parsifal
Andreas Schmidt, gurnemanz
Matthias Hölle, amfortas
The Philadelphia Singers Chorale


Kimmel Center - Verizon Hall


Late Works Festival II: Beyond the World


BERIO Stanze
WAGNER Act III from Parsifal

Different Wagner piece that I'm not familar with though, and don't know the Berio one either.

Zarak,

If you've never heard Richard Strauss's Four Last Songs, you are in for a treat, and Renee Fleming sings them fantastically well. There are thrilling changes of key, harmony and melody.

Strauss wrote them when he was 80, and they are the culmination of his career. I've requested they be played at my funeral and I think it should be the Renee Fleming version. I've picked her recording likely because her rendition is among the most recent (I have them by three others, all of which are very fine--Kiri TaKanawa, Elizabeth Schwartzkopf and Lucia Popp).

I don't know the Dvorak, but that composer is always melodic and of course the Wagner will be grand and impressive.

The other program is modern (the Berio would likely drive me out of the hall) which usually means no melody, jarring atonal and discordant noise. Avoid it.

Regards,

Jason, as Alan inferred, if you go to the second concert you listed you may never want to go to another one. Eschenbach apparently feels obligated to program a considerable amount of "modern" classical music, but it's garbage that would have Ormandy spinning in his grave. Your first selection would be fine; the Four Last Songs have beautiful moments and the 8th is probably my favorite Dvorak symphony.

I've checked the 2004-2005 schedule, and you should consider the following: Oct.13-16(Dvorak Scherzo Capriccioso, Rachmaninoff 3rd Piano Concerto); Nov.26-30(Rachmaninoff 2d Symphony);Jan.29(Ravel Daphnis et Chloe); March 10-15(Smetana Dances from the Bartered Bride, Dvorak 7th Symphony); March 17-19(Ravel Mother Goose, Daphnis et Chloe); March 31-April 5(Vaughn Williams 2d Symphony); April 27-May 3(Rimsky-Korsakov Scheherazade).

Are either of you familar with this version of 4 last songs?
CBS Masterworks, MK 42019.

It's available at my local library.

I found a couple copies of Symphony #8, but none at the local one. I'll have to track a version down. If there's a recomended version of this I'll try to get it, otherwise I'll just pick one and hope it's well recorded and the Axiom's like it

Ravel Daphnis et Chloe

Great stuff, but I am partial to Ravel.

Jason, that performance is by Eva Marton with Andrew Davis and the Toronto Symphony. I've never heard it(my favorite is by Jessye Norman)but it'll show you these four pretty little songs(I like the second, September).

As to the Dvorak symphonies, my favorite which I have is a coupling of 7 and 8 by Sir Colin Davis. This is now available on a 2 disc set(about $16)with the 9th(New World Symphony)and Symphonic Variations on Philips PHI 438 437.

Call me uncultured (and mildly off-topic), but "Another One Bites the Dust" will be playing at my funeral...

They played that at my wedding ...

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Call me uncultured (and mildly off-topic), but "Another One Bites the Dust" will be playing at my funeral...

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Put me down for the Pogues' If I Should Fall From Grace With God... for my wake.

Bren R.

Eh, you copied that straight from our former roommate's grandmother...

bren, i still get the urge to blast aqualung (sp) for college flash backs.

LADIES AND GENTLEMAN....

here comes the 20 minute flute solo???

what was that guy thinkin'??

bigjohn

JohnK,

Most amused by your comments on "modern" music. I may have that Eva Marton/Andrew Davis version of Four Last Songs on vinyl, badly warped, if memory serves (the disc, not Eva Marton or Andrew Davis!) It was one of the very few recordings the Toronto Symphony made during my time as a Toronto resident.

Regards,

I got last 4 songs and gave it a listen. It seems more female singing then anything....closer to opera then what I think of as symphony orchestra (with my limited knowledge, addmittedly).

Anyway, I'm still thinking about getting tickets and thought I might be able to get some help. Here's the price chart with a seating chart link off of that page.

http://www.philorch.org/styles/poa02e/www/tixpricechart.html

I'm looking at opening night. How much does it really matter where I sit. I would think you are going for the sound more then neccessarily being as close as you can to see them. As far as close goes, there is the conductors circle, but that's behind them. Are the acoustics of most of these places designed so that it doesn't sound as good from back there? If not that seems like a good way to sit close without paying a ton. As you can see, only tier 2 and 3 remain other then that. I rather not spend a ton for my first one of these, unless the difference is huge enough to warrant it. So, being a first timer, where better to get input then here

Jason, one thought that strikes me is that it's nice to go to opening night, but that's five months off. How about tomorrow night? Nice program with the Brahms Violin Concerto and the Prokofiev 5th Symphony. As to seating, although I've traveled all over the world, I've actually never been in Philadelphia and don't know the hall. I've never sat behind the orchestra and the idea really doesn't appeal to me. The farther and higher from the orchestra that you sit, the higher the proportion of reflected as compared with direct sound, although even up front there's more reflected than direct. Incidentally, this is why the use of DPLII, etc. to reproduce ambience present in a stereo recording from the side and/or back speakers can actually give a more natural effect than hearing everything from the front speakers.

When I was a stoont, of course I couldn't afford to go to many concerts if I would buy tickets up front. That's been fixed, and I now sit a lot closer, but I'd guess that in your situation there'd be little difference between the sound in tier 2 or tier 3.

I was going to wait until September because I have been looking for a concert where Wagner would be played. That piece is the main one I'm interested in hearing. I don't want to go just to go, hoping that I'll like it.

It's one of those things I've been thinking that it would be good to do once (who knows, maybe more if I do end up liking it a lot) but I want to be familiar with the music I'm going to listen to. The Wagner piece that will be played is probably my favorite piece of what I have heard from the classical genre so far, in my addmittedly limited exposure.

Pulling this thread back from the dead....

For whoever is interested, I did get tickets for 9/21 for the orchestra in Philly.

Since this is my first time, any idea on what I should expect, things to know going in, etc?

What do people wear to opening night? I don't know how fancy to expect...will people have tuxes on, or is a suit fine, or (I doubt it) do people not even get that dressed up? What other newb questions that I don't even know about should I have that someone (JohnK I would guess) would have answers to?

Generally speaking, the closer to the front youy sit, the better dressed you want to be. I usually wear something I'd wear for a nice date.

As far as what to expect, don't clap until people around you clap. This ain't no Jazz or Rock show.

Yes, it's bad form to clap between movements of a piece. I usually wait for a significant amount of people to clap before I do.

Out here at the Hollywood Bowl, it's OK to bring an ice chest full of wine and grub. I don't know about Philly.

Jason, ditto Peter and Ken, but you can pass on Mark's suggestion. There's certainly no obligatory dress code, but many in the front rows will have tuxes or lavish evening gowns(hopefully the latter will be women). So, wear a suit and tie.

To increase your enjoyment of the program I'd suggest that you read up on the history of the items being played, preferably in materials borrowed from the library although you can find a little info online. It's interesting to read how and why a composition came into being. While you're at the library it would also be a good idea to borrow all the CDs with those compositions that they have. Enjoy.

i say wear flip-flops and a wife beater.. and after a particularly good movement, stand-up and do the fist pumping, arsenio hall style, WHOOP! WHOOP! WHOOP!!!

bigjohn

Remind me to never attend a concert with you, will ya. Ya just can't take some people anywhere. Sheesh!

Now a football game would be a whole 'nother can o' worms.

yes, now i wear a classic black and white tux with ducktails to most football games. i accessorize with a silk billed top-hat, and diamond and onyx cuff links.

its a real hoot!!

bigjohn

Well, tomorrow evening is the show. The PHL orchestra was close to striking but it has been averted for at least 30 days. I was starting to wonder if I was even going to have a show to go to. No show would have been a good way to kill my interest in going. Fortunately, the show must go on! I'm looking forward to hearing Wagner and hoping I will like the others as well.

Jason, we'll be looking forward to your concert review and will certainly place greater stock in it than the one from the Inquirer critic. Enjoy.

How about if you go in the wife beater and your wife goes in one of those nordic opera outfits with the metal bra and horned helmet with the blond ponytails. Please make sure that both of you sing along at the top of your lungs.

Oh, I wish I'd seen this thread sooner! I lived in Philly until recently and went to see the orchestra often. However, since they moved to Verizon Hall I've only been a few times. An interesting sidelight for people here: that hall has a high-tech acoustic design, with adjustable panels etc. It's interesting that when it first opened, people described it using the same language they would use to describe a speaker -- it has a lot of bass, extremely clear, unforgivingly so, as opposed to the rich, warm sound of the old Academy of Music. Apparently that warmth was part of the classic "Philadelphia sound" and people didn't like the sound of the first season or so -- orchestra break-in, if you will.

I would guess that acoustics are pretty good anywhere in the hall, given its high-tech design, but I always to try sit in the center, not too close, and certainly certainly not behind. The seats behind the orchestra are for people who want to be seen, not people who want to hear the music. The whole layout of the orchestra (brass and percussion in back, first violins in front) presupposes the listener is behind the conductor. Moreoever, I'm told that good orchestras are trained to play a little ahead or behind of the beat depending on where they're sitting.

I agree, the Brahms-Prokofiev concert sounds fantastic.

Edit: here are some articles about Verizon Hall:

Sound Judgements
Progress Report (sidebar)

Out here at the Hollywood Bowl, it's OK to bring an ice chest full of wine and grub. I don't know about Philly.

At the Mann Center yes, but at Verizon Hall (just as at Disney Hall in LA) absolutely no...

We made it to the concert last night. My first impression was that the theater was really nice. I was only built 2-3 years ago and certainly looks modern, state of the art, and beautiful. On to the music though....

First impression of the music is that it was not as loud as I was expecting. Granted, I was sitting in the 4th row center of the top tier, but I still was expecting louder....too many rock concerts I guess

First piece was the Wagner that I had been wanting to hear. I really liked that one. It was great to be able to hear a piece I liked so much being played live. I had a big grin on my face the whole time.

Things slowed down after that. Strauss Last four songs was next. My biggest complaint here was that Renee Fleming, the soprano doing the singing, wasn't loud enough. It seemed like she was the background and the insturments were the focus, instead of vice versa. It's possible that it is supposed to be this way and I'm just used to the voice being more prominent, but I didn't think so. One of you classical guys can chime in on that.

Anyway, I like this part the least out of the show. Just to soft and quiet for me without the changes between fast and slow that I like.

Last was Dvorak's 8th. I wasn't familiar with this one going in. I liked to first part of it the best. The other movements weren't bad, but by the end I think I had just had enough, was getting tired, and was ready to call it a night. Being up late the night before to watch the Eagles probably didn't help.

Overall I was glad I went and got to see it once, but it is not something I am going to be in any hurry to go back and do. Especially at $68 a piece for the cheap seats. They had a dinner for the "rich attendees" before the show since it was opening night. Prices for the dinner started at $15,000 per table!

I generally find (mostly based on the old Academy) that the music sounds more distant than I'm used to on recordings, *especially* soloists (vocal or instrumental) which are always much softer than on the recordings.

The Orchestra has $10 rush tickets (now called the "PECO Power Hour"...sheesh) which are a lot better than $68....not for events like opening night, though.

Jason, as DW commented, either a vocal or instrumental soloist often seems less prominant in the concert hall than on recordings. On the recording the soloist can be specially miked so as to be more "upfront" when the mix is done. Occasionally critics reviewing recordings express unhappiness that the soloist has been given "unnatural" prominence. I also note in the Inquirer's very brief review that he comments that Renee Fleming looked a bit under the weather(so, even if BigWill would happen to suggest it, you shouldn't have shouted "louder Renee, we paid $68 for these damn tickets and can't hear you"). He also commented that the playing was polished and the Wagner was done with great spirit.

Although you weren't at one of the $15,000 dinner tables, I hope that you at least got that glass of champagne that was included pre-concert.

Since tickets on other than opening night cost about half as much or even less, you should try another one; for example in late November a very nice program has the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto and the gorgeous Rachmaninoff 2nd Symphony.

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Occasionally critics reviewing recordings express unhappiness that the soloist has been given "unnatural" prominence.

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I've just started working with a country/traditional Métis singer and I've had to get used to how far forward country vocals are mixed.

Bren R.

I'm not sure what that one sounds like, but if I try another one at some point I'd like the whole thing to be more along the spirited lines of the Wagner. I definately prefer the upbeat, energetic pieces. Have the short times where it gets soft and lulls in between is good as well, since it emphasizes those contrasts.