Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners New vs Old - Tweeters

Searching for some insight from old Axiomites who may be able to shed some light on the new tweeters vs the old. It's been my experience that the old ones are very bright and the new ones perform better on the lower level. When comparing these tweeter side by side, they give a totally different sound. Love to hear some end user experience here.

It's a night and day difference. My v2 tweeters sounded harsh at medium volume. They were breaking up. They weren't airy either. The v4 sound very composed, dispersive and airy.

They can take more power (larger motor structure) and dissipate heat better with a die cast aluminum vs. plastic faceplate. The plate has a tapered horn built in which improves off-axis response above I think 12KHz or so. The chamber on the rear of the tweeter is larger which allows for better magnitude and phase response at the cross-over frequency.

Andrew did a great job on it. Ian did a great job with speaker integration.

Looking over the B-Stock and Refurb, it seems like the appearance of the tweeter had a major upgrade from V3 to V4. Can you weigh in on that mojo?

I don't think Axiom did anything to the tweeter in v3. The changes came in v4. I think only the cross-over changed in v3 to take advantage of new learnings from The Family of Curves. Then Ian laid the boots to Andrew and told him to put more Mojo in the tweeter. So Andrew did and brilliantly so.

Edit: the tweeter was changed in v3 but the changes didn't go far enough. I think a die cast aluminum face plate was added but all else stayed the same. There were some complaints about it and that's when Andrew got to work.

The new imaging and soundstage you hear in the v4 came about in the v3. Then some refinements were made in v4. The white aluminum dustcaps were v3 and so were the magnetic grilles. The M3s (and maybe M2s) got some "real" cross-overs with better parts.

v4 brought improved mid-woofers, tweeters, and standard woofers including the HP woofer. And as I said before, the cross-overs were improved. I think the improved cabinet bracing came with v4. The subs got improved including the amps, sphincters and bracing. The sealed subs got tightened up with improved DSP code and bracing.

And I strongly suspect somewhere along the way, the MDF changed. And as of maybe the last year, the weight has been reduced but the sound has not been affected. I've done head-to-head tests of the heavy v4 160 and M5 with the lighter versions and there is no difference.

Engineering got real, real serious between v3 and v4!

Mojo, how many sphincters did I get in my 600 ;-) I'm guessing that is a technical term.

Fortunately you have no sphincters in your 600 - unlike my 600v2. Actually, that didn't have a sphincter. It was more like a gateway to another dimension. I stuffed three pillows in that one. Hopefully Axiom removed them before selling it as refurbished or someone got bonus gifts.

How are those ti tweeters treating you Rebulx?

Here’s another question..... so the “ ti “ series is the original. Or is “ ti “ considered v1?

If they are in fact different what changed between the versions? ( and yes mojo , we know v4 is the most significant changes. ).

I’m just curious what changes were made to create a new version so many times.

Ti is not just the moniker for the original tweeter version. Ti was the original version of M1, M2, M3, M40, M50, M60, M80, VP100 and VP150. I think that was right around 1999. I'm not sure about the 100 and 150. Ti stands for titanium according to Doug Schneider of Soundstage. I am assuming he was told that by Axiom. I have also seen Axiom call the Ti the v1.

After the Ti, Axiom made improvements. Between the Ti and v2, I think the audible improvements were mostly related to the cross-over. Sometime around mid '06, the v2 came out. But some marked Ti are actually v2.

My take, from the history I've gathered over the last 13 years, is that Axiom struggled with the highs on its speakers. They tried to fix this in various ways mostly through the cross-over. The struggle continued into v3 (summer 2010 intro) and didn't end there. The v3 tweeter could handle more power and was more dispersive and resulted in better imaging. But it still wasn't a grand slam. v3 also brought cosmetic, functional and performance changes through aluminum dustcaps, re-designed woofers, and cross-overs and magnetic grilles.

Someone eventually said this shit's got to get improved for real and that was the birth of the glorious v4 in early 2014. Andrew really re-designed the tweeter this time (LOL!). He gave it a die cast aluminum face plate for better rigidity and cooling, a larger rear chamber to lower the resonance frequency further below the crossover region, and a new horn to be smoother off-axis above 12 kHz. v4 continued to bring a whole bunch of other very significant changes as well that I've covered before. Finally with v4, we have glorious everything including soundstage width and depth, focused imaging and placement of those images on the soundstage.

Unfortunately, as you know from Rebulx's experience and I know there's at least one more on this board, some listeners' ears-brains got real messed up from listening to the tweeters of Ti to v3 and now they think those are the cat's pajamas when in reality the land of milk and honey is the v4.

I may as well add that some have said the changes throughout the last 20 years are only "a matter of degree" and they are all "similarly good". I really don't know what those statements mean but my ears-brain say BULL CRAP! I had the v2 for a decade only to be shocked into reality when I lined it up against the v4 (including the sub) and listened. I was robbed of owning the v4 earlier because I took the BULL CRAP as gospel.

Do yourself a solid and upgrade to v4 if you have v2 or earlier. I don't know about v3 because I've never heard it.

Interesting history. Thanks. I don’t doubt v4 is awesome.

I think it’s interesting the v4 tweeter you describe it as horn to improve its sound. I’m not trying to start a huge horn debate here at all, I’m trying to learn. ( I’ve read some crazy arguments over what is a horn and what isn’t a horn that got out of control). So, is that v4 tweeter a horn? By my luddite stance I’d say no. Or does it have some horn characteristics in how it operates? Maybe. Or does it even matter. By the sounds of it , whatever was done to it with the wave dispersion plate ( terminology?) it worked great.

I’ve read some descriptions of the ti tweet described as “ accurate “ but not bright. I can’t say bc I haven’t heard the v4 to compare. I think accurate is a good way to say it bc some recordings do sound sibilant to me. Whereas others sound and appear perfect with minimal sibilance or none. So I’d have to say that it’s the recording that makes it or breaks it the most for me.

I also asked bc my brother bought a pair of m60 v1 so I was curious what differences we might have to compare between our different vintages. Sounds like no difference really between the 2.

Thanks ,as always , for the detailed response.

I think I'm that other guy. I don't go back as far as the ti, but I was a huge fan of the v2, specifically the M22v2. I was shocked that I found the v2 version of that speaker sounded better that the v4. I would have just have blamed my being very used to the v2, but I went ahead and bought an A/B switch and did a more formal comparison and I became convinced that the v4 was less "interesting". It sounded like it dropped a few harmonics. I even dragged my wife into it, who was not nearly as invested; and when I did the A/B comparison she liked the M22v2 better too. Eventually I gave up on theM22v4 and returned them for the M5v4 which is definitely the better all-around package (e.g., M22v2 vs M5v4).

Personally I think it's the crossover, not the tweeters; but then I'd have to admit I don't know what I'm talking about. And then I'll double-down and bet that Axiom made the decision to tune the high-end crossover for the M5, as their new speaker. But I have nothing to back that up either. I'm curious how the M3's sound with the v4. Since the M3's have a lot in common with the M5's, I'm betting they sound better with the v4. If that proves true, that would make the M2 the loser; but Mojo insists they're awesome with the v4, so my theory falls apart. Still, I do have some old M3v2's, one day I'd like get some M3v4 and test my theory out.

Cork, that's very interesting feedback. And yes, it was you I was thinking of but I didn't want to call you out. Some folks are shy. I've been wondering why Axiom discontinued the M22. Given your feedback, it could be Axiom couldn't make it better, acknowledged it and moved on. Or maybe they just didn't want to invest any more in it. Thanks for sharing, BTW. The important thing is you've been enjoying them in the last decade.

The cross-over and the tweeters are of course very related but if you start off with a compromised tweeter design, you have to make compromises elsewhere too.

As for the M3, I had heard the Ti and did not like it. However, the M3v4 sound-staged and imaged better than my M80v2. The highs were also very nice. My guests and I preferred the M3v4 over the M80v2. Later, when I added the M2v4 into the mix, the M2 were preferred also over the M3v4 and M80v2. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I would take the M2v4 without a sub over the M80v2 with a sub. Understand however that imaging and soundstage are more important to me than full bass and dynamics. I actually find the dynamics nicer on the M2v4 but of course it can't go as loud as the M80v2.

Now here's the thing: as I have reported a few times, the M3v4 has a "real" cross-over. It's not like the v2 or Ti. Perhaps that cross-over and the new tweeter, tweaked using an improved Family of Curves, makes the M3v4 so much better than the previous versions. That new cross-over BTW was introduced in v3. I don't doubt that improvements were made to it in v4.

With regard to M3v4 vs. M2v4, they are completely different animals. The lack of a mid-woofer on the M3 makes the M3, M40, M50 the "odd" speakers out of the entire Axiom line. I do prefer the M2v4 over the M3v4 but then again, I have said the M3v4 sound is very relaxing and it would be cool to try and bring that sound, via a switch, to the other speakers. I find the M2v4 a nice balance between higher resolution speakers in the Axiom line-up and lower ones like the M3 and M50.

As for the M5s, those suckers were a complete re-design from the ground up with the constraints that the engineers had to use existing drivers and enclosure manufacturing methods and parts, and had to meet cost and size targets. Using those constraints, the engineers were free to do whatever they wanted including a lot of characterization and tweaking in the chamber which costs a lot of money and beers. The result was an impeccable speaker that easily competes with speakers twice the price. The one thing the engineers couldn't overcome was physics - the HP driver needs a ton of power.

The M5 does bring a conundrum to the table. Do you go with M5s and no sub or M2s and a sub or M5s with a sub. If you're going to add a sub to the system, and imaging and soundstage are important to you, the M2 may give more impressive results if you are not playing loud enough to distort the M2's mid-woofer (the M5's mid-woofer is crossed to the HP driver at 250Hz and therefore remains more linear on the low end). I say "may" because it depends on room integration. The M5 has a hump at around 100Hz and it does have an extra driver and more drivers make for more challenging imaging. The other factor to be considered is for some, imaging and soundstage is not important because they don't listen that way or they can't due to placement in the room. That's OK. But once they hear imaging and soundstage, they likely cannot go back. I know that from experience with my friends and family. And me.

Anyway, I think it's terrific that you answered the M22v2 vs. M22v4 question for yourself and that you enjoy them.

There's no debate about horns. They can be abused, like in the Tractrix horn for the Klipsch or used with great care as in the application of, what I think, is a shallow exponential-hyperbolic horn with low flare as in Axiom's case.


I would hear sibilance in v2 that I don't hear in v4. I truly find the v4 tweeter to be practically perfect.

He likes it loud. I think he ignited the Emotiva and vaporized Ti and v4 tweeters.

No doubt. That’s remarkable praise. I’m stoked to hear a v4 tweet someday.

I do remain astonished by how much the recording quality matters. It’s incredible. There’s some tracks that I can keep turning up the SPL and it’s amazing and clear and holographic and just makes me smile. I played that Lee Ritenour track I posted about yesterday, Closed Door Jam, and it made speak out loud to one in particular. I actually said out loud “ holy $@&;! that’s amazing”.

Other tracks I can’t even bear to listen to and move on. They just suck.

I'm listening to that track right now but I am telling you that you're missing a lot. If you're high on that right now, a sealed sub and M60v4 will have you rockin and a reelin, bouncing off the ceiling with glee and emotion.

I'd take the M60v4 over the M80v4 BTW. More linear.

BTW, you ought to hear the nuanced, tight yet transparent bass in After the Rain with v4 and sealed subs. Damn addictive!

That’s a lot of tweeters to replace with Ti tweeters. Rebulx, were you able to trade in the v4 tweets for ti? Or do you have all the v4 still?

I can just picture the tweeters melting and smoke coming out of the emotiva. I worry about my ti tweeters when I’m playing at high spl ( High for me anyway,) and there’s a point where you can’t go any further. Gets yucky. I find every song has its happy place for volume in my room.

That’s really interesting to hear you say that. I know you’ve said less drivers are more linear. Which makes sense. I don’t think I’d benefit really from an m100 or m80hp. Maybe an m60hpv4 is all I need. With more power behind them. Might make more sense then too spend money in future on better components and power so I can hear how that changes things ( as I’ve gotten used to my ti versions ). Or I put m60hpv4 into what I have now to hear the difference of the speakers without changing components.

Less drivers is more linear, so m2 with subs blended would be why you keep saying that I guess.

Just to add to that, I’d still like to have the ability really go loud occasionally.

When it does come time to upgrade maybe I order up all of the plausible options and just try them all over 30 days. Keep what sounds the best and send the rest back.

No, hang on! Less drivers is not more linear. What I said is that less drivers can lead to better room integration and better imaging. My M2s for example integrate with and image better in my living room than any other Axiom.

More drivers are used to allow higher SPLs. With less drivers, the speakers distort when you want more SPL. The drivers share the SPL load. Back to my living room M2s, one mid-woofer and one tweeter is more than enough for my living room needs.

Loud and clean = M100s

Louder and cleaner = active LFR1100s

Thanks for clarifying. I better read carefully from now on.

More drivers= shared load of high voltage for high spl making less distortion. Makes sense.

More drivers = more challenging to integrate into room / achieve holographic image bc of trying to “ time “ all drivers accurately? Or too many drivers in smaller space creating room nodes etc? Or both?

LFR1100 actives in this house would be too much as would m100 I think. I’ll create a space for those one day with subs etc.

The simple question is, why would you choose that?.....an m60v4 be more linear than an m80v4?

Edit; What’s the definition of audio linearity? Less distortion? Maybe I’m confused by a terminology misunderstanding?

Yes and yes. You'll be helping Andrew in no time.

Also, the more drivers a speaker has, the larger its cabinet, unless it's open. The cabinet interacts with the acoustic radiation inside the room. The smaller it is, the more of a point source it becomes and the less it interferes with the room. Also the smaller it is, the less it makes noise of its own which is an absolute nightmare to resolve unless you can make use of digital active filtering a la active LFR1100s.

But even the active LFR1100s are not perfect in that regard. They are oh so darned close. Why oh why Ian did you not add two more mids and two more tweets per speaker? What's 4 more amp channels when we already need 10?

Look at the M2 vs. M3 amplitude/frequency response graph. Which is more linear? Which one do you think goes "boom" in my living room? See that little bump around 80Hz on the M2? It sounds so sweet in my living room.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/2/m2_freq_1.gif

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/3/m3_freq.gif

Look at the M60 vs M80. Yeah, the M80's "got more bass" but which is more linear? Unless you need the higher SPL of the M80, the M60 is hands-down the better speaker.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/6/m60_freq.gif

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/8/m80_freq.gif

Now look at M80 vs. M100. I can tell you right now which bass sounds better in a room.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/8/m80_freq.gif

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/1/m100_freq_graph.gif

Now LFR1100 vs. active LFR1100.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/l/f/lfr1100-sp-lw.jpg

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/l/f/lfr1100_active_graph_1.jpg

Those last curves, that's what I paid for. When I saw those curves, I knew I had to have it!

Ha ha ha!! nice. Well good, i've got some great ideas for him.
Yeah, ummmmm no. I don't think he needs the kind of help I have to offer!

Sounds like a constant give and take battle. More drivers for spl sharing but bigger cabinet with potential more resonances. So build a strong cabinet with bracing, price and cost go up. And on and on it goes.

Even if you build a completely inert cabinet, that inert cabinet still interacts with the energy off the room boundaries. Now you have a completely inert cabinet that still acts as an acoustical shadow.

I upgraded from M60V4 to M80V4 a couple years ago.

Mojo has a ton of useful information, and I do appreciate his opinion, but he ain't always "right". My M80's are a superior sounding speaker than the M60's they replaced. And neither are HP's...... Just saying....... Take advice with a grain of salt and consider other points of view.

Hey Michael thanks for chiming in.

Why did you decide to upgrade from m60v4 to m80v4?

Why did you choose to not get the HP version?

What differences are you hearing?

What size and type of space are you in?

I’ve always considered the m80 as the flagship speaker from axiom. I bought these m60 ti for cheapish on refurb just to try out axiom. Loving em.

It looks like you have lots of posts so I’m guessing you’ve gone thru the various versions of towers over the years.

I’m absolutely open to anyone’s opinion they are sharing. I’m enjoying learning and this is hobby I didn’t think I’d get so geeked out on. Thats why I’m here! Plus it’s fun to yack about audio.

IMO a lot of the ti vs v4 debate depends on the content you are playing.

Around the time the ti speakers were developed the audio business was in a downturn while the home theater business was going crazy. I still find ti speakers pretty much ideal for home theater, while they can be a bit edgy on some music.

My theory (supported by some, mocked by others) is that a lot of popular music was mixed with monitor speakers that had a deliberate dip in the 2-4 KHz region (sometimes called "the BBC dip") since that response seemed to be popular with average listeners. The problem was that if you mix and EQ through speakers with a 2-4 KHz dip and then play back on speakers that have a bit of emphasis in that region you can end up with "bright" fairly easily.

Not sure of the reason but I never had that problem with home theater content. I'm guessing that the reference systems used for mixing movies had something closer to a flat or even slightly peaky response in that region, resulting in a more neutral balance across the frequencies...

... or it could just be that music from the 80s and 90s really was as awful as people say it was

Yeah. I remember you telling me about the bbc dip. ( I think it was you ). That’s also what I meant about the source really mattering. I mean I just finished listened to Lee Ritenour and Larry Carlton album. Simply amazing on many levels.

https://open.spotify.com/album/1izCoiNwQyikt9zY9LQUdc?si=C69SDBZiRI245Yv-NkUEFw

Again I’m an n=1 experiment here but I think the ti tweet sounded great. I have the towers flush ( no toe in ) and it’s just incredible. Now if I play other tracks like Fleetwood Mac - Dreams - remastered..... It’s bright. No doubt there.

https://open.spotify.com/track/0ofHAoxe9vBkTCp2UQIavz?si=kcaaspRGTKGUzrTZwjgEKQ

So I keep coming back to the quality of the recording as being a huge factor in what gets put out thru the tweeters and woofers. These are very accurate speakers. IMO.

I guess the only way to really know is bite the bullet and try something v4 but I find it difficult to pay more $$$ when I already really love what I have.

In the meantime I’m just gonna enjoy the music.

Lee and Larry knocked it out of the park !!! Such a good album. I’m giddy from listening to that. So good. I know y’all know what I mean after a good listening session.

Michael, I know from previous discussions a couple of years ago, you like the dynamics of the M80s; just as you like fast cars. The M60s didn't have the 'nads you wanted for dynamics and that's where the M80s came in. This is terrific and I am very happy you found your happy place. Notice in my response to Kodiak, I said "Unless you need the higher SPL of the M80, the M60 is hands-down the better speaker"?

BTW Michael, I am correct 100% of the time +/- 3dB just like Ian says in this video at around 14:53 but you have to watch from the time below to get the context. So wonderful to see and hear Ian laughing.

https://youtu.be/BIgisk7QNMU?t=849

Given the emotions you've described, I say keep the M60Ti and get yourself at least one sealed sub. There is no point in waiting for a sub because you will always need at least one.

Oh, I don't have a great reason. I'm an impulse buyer of Axiom products I reckon...... My first Axiom speaker was the M80TI. I still have them and listen to them pretty much every day. They are playing "surround back" channels in my great room. I use this system for background music in multi channel stereo. They still kick ass.

I bought the M60's in real wood finish for my small HT room. It's 12' X 18'. I also thought they might play better with the 160, and I did not want the 180, so I went with the 60's. I also had some other real wood speakers, but in different colors/species, so one day I decided to buy a whole new system, matching all the speakers. I went with the M80's this time, because I always felt the M60's just didn't have the kick the M80's did.

And no, Mojo....lol..... I did not miss SPL, as I do not need to go deaf. The M80's hit harder, at lower SPL too. I like them better, no question, than the M60's.

I did not go with the HP drivers, cause I have no need for them, and that would just be throwing money away for no good reason.

From Mojo: "Understand however that imaging and soundstage are more important to me than full bass and dynamics."

You hit the nail on the head with that statement Mojo.

I've learned that speakers are just like a well prepared dish, some people are used to salty food and enjoy those bursts of flavor in every bite and some like a more bland flavor that allows you to identify, enjoy, and appreciate the other ingredients. Personally, I like it salty, I'll use texture to identify my other ingredients (plus or minus 3db). Yeah, i'm hungry. lol

Due to my listening environment, it's no wonder why I like it salty, since room acoustics / sound absorption have just as much to do with great sound, as the speaker themselves.

You have them set up along the 12'width, Michael. The actives would be perfect in that room! They'd give you the quiet kicks you like...LOL!

Rebulx, you live! I thought you passed on from a thigh lock. So just how badly did you fry your M100s and Emo?

BTW, this is salty.

https://open.spotify.com/track/5mg8Zn962HnQG63gzxJJWY?si=hBxPfeelT2SDjA3-azokfQ

wow mojo that was a great share. love that tune. I've also been listening to the live performances on apple music, spans 1960 to present, quite a good listen.


kodiak, appreciate all your questions as i've been learning from them, thanks.

During the last week I've had the opportunity to audition Elac, Martin Logan, and KEF's new Meta line. My personal opinion, Axioms v4 tweeter is similar to Elac's new stuff and the old ti tweeter sound is similar to the speakers that cost a bunch more like the b&w diamond series and the new LS50 Meta Kef bookshelves. imho. After all the listening i'm really happy with the M100s.

Hey Rebulx, my pleasure on the questions. I like learning stuff. I enjoy understanding how stuff works. And there’s no better way to learn then from those that have come before me. It’s all kinds subjective stuff when we get into opinions and tastes but the science behind it is quite fascinating and objective. I think some of the you tube review stuff is silly but one guy reviewer quotes “ the only one who has to like the sound of your system is you”. And it’s true.

And..... I just realized your in Florida near the water, ( as evidenced by your window that looks out that way so no speakers can go there!!!! Ha. ) I love watching YouTube videos of Haulover Inlet!! Crazy stuff that is. Nice boats though! Wow. You ever navigate that inlet? You mentioned fishing.

Glad your loving the m100. How was the ti tweeter to swap in and out? Easy enough? Ian had 4 of them for you?

The Next Best Thing video was very well done Ian and Jay looked very comfortable on the dock there. He also has another inside Axiom aswell. I've been watching their vids for a couple years now.

Many years ago, when the "Ti" version was being sold, Axiom speakers were often called - "bright". And not in a complimentary way. There was non-stop discussions between those who did not like them, and those of us who did. The Ti version hated poorly recorded music. Or, I should say, anyone listening to Axiom speakers hated poorly recorded music. It sounded very harsh, nasty. But, music that was recorded well, sounded extremely good to those of us who liked the Axiom sound. That still applies to the Ti version. The tweeters are fantastic at revealing detail that can be missed by the V4 version.

I've played the the notion to swap out the drivers and tweeters of my Ti M80's, but then I listen to them, and remember why I have always enjoyed how they sound. I plan to wrap them in a walnut or cherry veneer this winter. I may swap out the tweeters and crossover, but I still have not made up my mind. The last time I looked into doing the driver/tweeter swap, the cost was nearly that of a new set of speakers.

I'll also mention that there was time when you could get a set of in-line resisters for the tweeters, directly from Axiom. I did. They definitely tamed them down a bit. I do not recall exactly what they did, or how they did it.

The in-line resistor cuts the sound pressure level of the tweeter down. But it also affects the cross-over frequency and maybe even the Q. It also affects the impedance the amp sees. The first two reasons are why I didn't want to start messing with in-line resistors.

Michael, I'd suggest, if you already have not done so, setting up the M80Ti and the M80v4 in the same room and then compare. But I won't make the suggestion because hey...if you like the M80Ti, then just enjoy them. Same with Kodiak and his M60Ti but dude, get a sealed sub. You'll enjoy life a lot more.

But...if you get tempted Michael...and I am not saying you should :), listen but not only to the quality of the sound coming out of the tweeters but also the imaging between the two versions. The imaging is largely the responsibility of the tweeter and the upper mid-range. Really listen to where the performers are situated and what sort of soundstage they form. Listen at lower volumes and higher volumes. I am assuming you have them set up so they will form a soundstage. Some people can't do that or don't know they should or just don't care. Make notes. Create some doodles of the soundstage and where instruments and voices are spatially located on that soundstage.

I remember you saying a couple of years ago you are not an audiophile and you can't really describe what you hear. That's exactly what my buddies were saying years ago. Now my buddies know - they really know - what they are listening to and it's not just bass, mids and treble.

But I also regret their awakening. They were happy with the fuzzy music playing in the background but then they started asking a lot of questions when they came over. What was I to do? I supplied answers and showed them a few things.

Finally, don't swap out tweeters or cross-overs on your M80Ti. Just enjoy them. Axiom has improved all the drivers including the standard ones and the cabinet. Those improvements do affect the curves and the curves represent the system response of the speaker. That system is cabinet, stuffing, cross-over and drivers. So if you change the tweeters or the tweeters and the cross-over, who the heck knows what kind of audio you'll get. It won't be something that Axiom has engineered as a unified system!

Thank you for the advice Mojo, it sounds pretty logical to me!

The listening test you describe would be very interesting. The only problem with doing it, is lugging the speakers around the house, up/down stairs. Let me know the next time you are in Alaska, you can help me set up the test.

I'll take you up on that. I've been wanting to drive my van the 2100 miles up there. I'll bring my guns, bows, spears, swords, axes, sais, tiger fork and knives. I might need all those on the trek up there.

Brendo, I started laughing so hard, I couldn't breathe when Ian went on about +/- 3dB in the video I linked to. Then it started all over again when he made the crack about pair matching at the video linked below. Ian has a very infectious laugh and it's even more infectious when you're looking at him.

https://youtu.be/iXkuH9awY0g?t=1061

I second that. The pair matching comment was so bang on and a total truth but so tongue in cheek a little bit too. Perfectly timed as well. That was a good video to in its entirety. Anechoic chamber is cool.

Agreed mojo. A sealed sub would add a new dimension to my current audio bliss. It’ll be a while though before that happens. COVID left me unemployed for 7 months. I’m finally working again so it’ll take some time before I have hobby money again. Gotta enjoy what I’ve got at the moment. Gonna chase down only good recordings!!!

Yeah, I thought you were still doing some part-time work. I am really sorry to hear that. I suppose the silver lining as far as subs go is you'll get another opinion from me about the EP600 and the EP125 before buying.

Very true,I look forward to hearing your opinion on those for sure!!

Where in your living room do you anticipate putting the 125s? In stereo position below the m2ow ? Or will do a” crawl” for nodes? But with 2 you should in theory be able to get it pretty even from a stereo position no? Especially once you’ve blended crossover and phased properly.

Maybe it’s your wide fisheye lens but your living room looks bigger than 2000 cubed. It looks the same almost as my listening area ( minus my kitchen which is connected by doorway and a pass thru. )

At present (if you believe there is a present), the right sub is pretty much below the right M2OW. The left sub is hiding under the table on the left. I've found corner placement of these subs in my room works best. I'm not fond of placing subs so close to boundaries though. I'll be experimenting with the 125s.

Each sub is fed from my Pioneer's pre-outs for left and right.

My subs have more than enough SPL output. They are up only a third of the way; I have lots of headroom. Both of them lack finesse though. The bass up here is nothing like my downstairs system. Not even close. You don't even have to listen critically to tell the difference.

My living room is 20x12x8=1920 cu ft and open to the rest of the house. The M2OW are the perfect speaker for audio in this room set-up. Perfect for audio and perfect for aesthetics. The M2OW are acoustically invisible and if you listen to them blind-folded, you will think there is surround-sound in here with huge speakers mounted along the front and side walls. The SPL in this room can be brought to unbearable levels with the M2OW and my measly but nonetheless beautifully engineered 55W/channel Pioneer.

What we clearly need is a version of the speakers where the top portion rotates horizontally to bring different tweeters into play, like the rotating license plates on the old James Bond movies (and Transporter IIRC). A few hours with a remote control for the tweeter rotation and a variety of source material should settle the discussion in short order.

Yeah i'm totally addicted to those Haulover inlet boating videos too! It's crazy how many people get caught up in those outgoing tides. I've not had the pleasure of boating in that particular inlet. Heading to Crystal River for a week tomorrow with the family, that should be fun.

Tweeters should be arriving any day now. I probably won't get a chance to listen to them till I get back. I'm also getting some M2, M3, and M5s bookshelves plus I finally ordered that VP160.

That's hilarious, John.

Actually, what folks might want to do is trick out their tweeters. The v4 has an acoustically absorptive plug at the rear of the diaphragm to linearize the frequency response. I think it's made of felt. If you use the coarse hairs from Llama 'nads, you will find the tweeter has more of a Latin American sound. I've successfully used Canadian beaver fur for the famed relaxed Great White North sound.

How sweet is that? You really gotta try setting those M2s one quarter of the way into your room from the front wall, equidistant from the sides, and hear the images they project.