Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Hearing Things BrAxiom's been busy!

Wonder what they cost.

I need to make more money.

We all need to spend less right now.

Yeah... I'm not ready to make that leap any time soon.

Bryson is to Axiom as Lexus is to Toyota (IMHO)
Why would you pay 2 to 3 times as much for a little extra chrome?

I'm not sure about that.

8" drivers energize a room differently than 6.5". That makes a difference in big rooms.

The stiffer bracing makes a difference when it comes to the speakers disappearing better.

How do you want to compare them ... by price?? by box size (volume)?
By box size you might be right ... never heard a Bryston but suspect they sound very close the the axiom equivalents.

By price, I sure axiom would come out the winner. For example, for the price of their high end speaker ... I could add 2 ADA1500-5 + 2 EP600s to an LFR1100 order and still have a lot of moola left over.

I'd be very surprised if any Bryston could beat that combo ... 8" drivers or not.

The one thing Bryson currently has which Axiom does not is a home theater prepro.

Given that object placement and room correction are very interesting topics, which I believe fall into Ians and Andrews interests and expertise, I would not be surprised if they are playing around with it. So, if I might speculate, we might see an Axiom prepro sometime in the future with Axiom decoders and correction. Again complete speculation.

There are listeners out there who don't believe in subs and active speakers.

ok then ... I have my view point and I'm happy to let others have theirs.

I’m a believer. I want both active and subs. I have nothing to base that off of other than anecdotal evidence and revelation of other believers.

I am a true believer.


(But I do like the 8 inch woofers and the black colour of the woofers, other than that I remain ensconced in my belief. )

It even says it right under my name……Kodiak. Devotee. See? There’s no denying it.

I hope those Bryston systems get set up in rooms worthy of them…. Lol. Probably outstanding.

Of course this comment is hypothetical as I haven’t heard anything Bryston or active, but given the price tag of of the Bryston, could a passive non active model T with good components in the right room compete with an active LFR1100 with subs, also in the right room? ( assuming we could solve for personal taste and subjectivity). ?

That would be an interesting double blind test.

Rrlev, I hope your right that Axiom would come out with a prepro , I like my transformer and if that’s any indication than I bet Braxiom could come out with something really interesting.

What a great partnership. Seems like a good fit to me. Those Bryston electronics seem really nice. Really good reviews. And 20 year warranty too.

It depends what you mean by "compete". Different listeners value different factors of the listening experience. I value soundstage and imaging (holography) more so than bass performance (although non-linear bass is an absolute killer of sound and I can't stand that). But others want the bass and don't so much care about imaging and soundstage.

The Model Ts have a higher chance than the active LFR1100s of energizing a room better and resulting in palpable bass.

The active LFR1100s have a higher chance at holography than the passive Model T due to the sound power curve riding on the listening window curve.

When I say "higher chance", I mean based on randomizing room selection. In my 2,000 cu. ft. living room, I would bet the active LFR1100 would be selected in favor of the Model T because not only is it good at holography in that room, it absolutely nails the bass. The Model T would likely sound very boomy to the point where I'd have to punt it like most Axioms in that room. But in my 4,000 cu. ft. basement, it is possible some may select the Model T because I bet it would absolutely slay the active LFR1100 in bass.

LFR1100 are no slouch on bass and killer with a sub (for those of us willing to use one)
I’m sure the Bryson’s are excellent too only because of the brand and knowing who designed them

What I love about the bass from the actives in my 4000 cu. ft. room is that it's not offensive. I can listen uncorrected and it is very good. I can't say that about any other speaker I've tried in that room. And yes...a sub is needed there...but not in my living room. There was no benefit with a 500, 600 or 800 in the living room. I also tried two 500s for good measure.

The actives continue to amaze.

I thought your motto on subs was the more the better. So, I’m shocked & surprised you stopped at two before giving up

Damn it. You're right. I need to haul my actives and 7 sealed subs upstairs and repeat the experiment.

My observation has been when a good sub is blended correctly with a decent full range speaker you don’t really hear it for most music. I’ve had to sometimes feel the subs cone to even know it was working. To know if it was adding anything I had to disconnect the sub during playback. Often there is a subtle difference.

Of course if your playing music with fundamental content below 30hz the sub will start to dominate.

The mojo and rrlev back and forth posts are some of the best reads... who needs an audio magazine when you have this type of exchange. Love your comments!

Great discussion!

I have subs on every channel! Phuk yeah!!

You will note Rebulx doesn't post any more. He got brain damage. He swapped out the v4 tweeter with the ti tweeter on his M100v4. Poor guy!

Hey Mojo, Came out of brain surgery the other day. Those old tweeters are awesome! hehe.

I don't know about the ti, but I do love me some v2. Since v2 is closer to ti than v4 ... team Rebulx! Woo! Woo!

Seriously how do you guys differentiate the difference in the upgraded crossovers from the upgraded tweeters?

I only know of Rebulx who has tried the old tweetage in the v4. I haven't heard it myself so I can't say.

My v2 tweeters broke up at higher SPLs. The v4 do not. What I didn't know until I got my v4 was how much narrower the soundstage was with v2. V4 took care of that with improved dispersion of the tweeter and likely improved hand-off between the mid and tweeter.

The v2 highs sound what many would describe as "clearer". To me they sound more clinical, not as natural and not as nice to listen to for long.

Not sure really who is brain damaged. Me or you and Rebulx.

Hey Guys,

The Ti tweeters seemed a little too high pitched, I loved the v2 tweeters. I swapped a bunch in the v2 cabinets and the newest cabinets. I love the v2 tweeters but have grown accustom to the latest, improved tweeters. My ears were just used to a certain sound and it took a minute to appreciate the newer sound stage.

I really like Corks comment about the crossovers. "Seriously how do you guys differentiate the difference in the upgraded crossovers from the upgraded tweeters?"... I swapped a bunch of components. But I never swapped crossovers. Don't plan to either. I went 15 rounds with the tweeters and had great fun doing it. No other speaker company would let you do that.

Love to hear how a crossover effects the tweeter, if it does at all?

That's some very interesting feedback from you about your final preference.

The crossover is a bunch of parts in the speaker that act as a steering system for frequencies. Highs go the tweeter and the lows go elsewhere like a mid-woofer and/or a woofer. The crossover can also be used to fix misbehavior of the driver.

The devil is in the hand-off between one driver and another. Another devil is performance of the cross-over under high power.

You can't possibly know if a crossover is good or bad by looking at it. You also can't know by doing math. You have to do tests like Axiom does by spinning the speaker around and taking measurements. You start by doing some math to get the parts close to target and then iterate by measuring and tweaking the parts. When you think you've got it right, you do some listening. And you might need to tweak some more. Sometimes, you might have to build multiple flavors of crossovers, listen to each one and decide what you think your market likes best. That becomes the reference design that goes to production.

Then you get the speaker and phuk things up by swapping a v4 tweeter with a ti.

Rebulx, if you're really interested in crossovers, there's an excellent, free, 840 page book right here.

https://picture.iczhiku.com/resource/eetop/wYkFkpJYZjZrONmX.pdf

Like Mojo was sayin the crossovers job is to steer the energy in the frequency range for each speaker to that speakers.
By designing the speaker’s frequency ranges to over lap a bit one can fade one speaker out while fading the next in. Hence the name crossover. Part of the crossover circuit equation are the speakers themselves. Also, the speaker characteristics on reproducing what’s put into them are part of the cross over design.

All the components are designed to work together as a unit… its why swapping a speaker component with different characteristics is not recommended.

Hope that helps

Well, has anyone been exhibiting strange behavior lately or in the past?


For example … whacking M22 wannabees with a gun stock club or perhaps dressing LFRs in lime mankinis

You can't use the behaviors I exhibited in different posts to diagnose my condition in this post.

I'm just say'n ... no diagnostics going on here ...

Just looked at this … it’s excellent if you’re an EE and want some review.
(It’s not even on crossovers but the more general topic of filters)

Mojo is having a laugh … probably couldn’t get though it himself so suggested that you try

Don't let DeSantis see this book. It covers forbidden subjects like frequency transformations, sensitivity and selectivity, and biquads.

Andrew used chapter 11 to build a parametric filter with an analog biquad for the 125, 175 and 350.