Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Talk me out of it….Pulling the trigger…

I think I’m going to grab the M3v4 Boston cherry on refurb. Talk me out of it…. It’s for my master bedroom system. Will have a record player and a one box integrated to power it all. I think mojo already has me convinced but I’m keen to hear others thoughts. I’d like to not have subs in my bedroom so the m3 seems like a good fit. M5 I think is to big and would over power my bedroom. Had the m60ti in there for a bit and it was way overkill.

Stoked to finally try some v4 unless y’all talk me out of it.

Do it. They are great.

You will enjoy them. And finally you will be able to compare between two Axioms!

BTW, you've been working hard and you deserve a nice set of speakers. If I was your missus, I'd buy you the M3 and M2.

Trigger pulled. Boston Cherry M3 V4 refurbs. Now the waiting game. Should be easy to wait, I’m not there anyway to receive them!! Ha!

Now I gotta buy an amplifier and turn table …….darn. These are good problems to have.

I’m stoked gentlemen.

I've learned that unless you have active LFRs, you need room correction. You may be able to get away with just bass management but that means you may need a sub. I say "may" because cutting the bass may be enough. Perhaps you can temporarily set up your M60 receiver in the bedroom and see what you think.

I will very likely use my old yammie receiver for a bit. I’m curious to hear the difference in the m3 with all other things being equal.

I am now shopping for a one box solution integrated amplifier. There’s a lot of options out there. I’d like something that can stream / has built in DAC , room correction would be good too, I’ve never played with that before. I’d probably buy an external phono pre if it didn’t have well regarded one.

On the other hand…..an older vintage or purely analog unit is also of interest. ( Like a Yamaha AS-1200 or 2200).

Is the room correction really that good? It probably is….? I’d like to avoid subs if possible , avoid the footprint and the cost. I’d like to put that $$$ towards the eventual great room system, and keep the bedroom setup simple.

Excellent idea to start with your old Yammie.

Yes, room correction sure saved me and all others I know. I know my M2OW in the living room can sound a lot better if I had room correction in there.

I'm not sure if there's a 2.1 receiver out there that does bass management AND room correction. Onkyo and Outlaw do bass management only and out of those two, only Onkyo has built-in Chromecast, etc. The built-in Chromecast is awesome because you can stream YouTube music with it.

Once you compare the M3 with the M60, you'll get an immediate and unforgettable understanding of what a mid-woofer that is dedicated to (mostly) mids can do. Then again, the non-linearity of the M3 mids can be as pleasant as the technically deleterious yet emotionally pleasing effects of vinyl or tubes.

I’m a believer in synergy of matching components and class types, based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence and the fact that I want it to be true. ( that’s a loaded statement, go easy on me…)

But if the m3 has a more laid back and “ non linear mid “ would a more analytical class d amp jive well with the m3?

Like an NAD C388 fits the bill. Well spec’ed good power and can stream easily. Has sub woofer out , not sure if it has a low / high pass filter or not or bass management.

There’s also the other route of a fully analogue setup, like the Cambridge Audio Azur 851a.

Both are available right now ( the Cambridge and the NAD) as open box purchase for 1400 or so versus the reg 2250 approx.

But I’m not sure what route to go… but I do t want to stall out here.

No rush I guess, see how it sounds with the yammie first. But part of me is like f it and just buy something.

I’m not one to make quick decisions as you all know.

No room correction or bass management in those products. Apps are limited too. I think the CA unit doesn't come with any.

I wouldn't say any particular amplifier class is more analytical than another. I don't even know what analytical means with regard to amplifier classes. I don't think any designer sets off to design a more or less analytical audio amplifier.

You’re probably right. Maybe I’m drinking the YouTube reviewer koolaid. Who knows.

I do know when I hooked up brothers HK via the axiom transformer, using just the power section on the HKand the preamp section of the axiom with the m60s tbere was a tangible difference.

There are certainly audible differences between amps/receivers. But you can't generalize and say one amplifier class is more analytical than another. If analytical means preservation of micro and macro dynamics, I'd have to say Class A wins. But it also depends on the capability of the designer and the company that manufactures it.

I can see that logic. Class to class generalization not being correct. I completely agree though that each amp or receiver or pre amp can definitely have a certain quality or signature. All the more reason to just start off with my yammie.

I’m pumped man to have new speakers coming. Fun stuff!!

I totally like how you're not just diving into a ton of new purchases. You can enjoy and compare them with the 60s in the living room for a while before yammieying them.

Thanks. I’d like to admit me taking my time is on purpose, and to a degree it is. But it’s also out of being indecisive, but that comes from not being totally sure of what I want in the big picture.

I’ve had that b stock lfr active walnut espresso in my cart a few times, just to try it on……it fits….

But then quickly realizing my house and space are just not ready for it.

But the master bedroom is something I can wrap my head around and get fairly immediate enjoy me too out of it too and not break the bank.

Never say never and I’ll see what happens when I eventually “ yammie “ the M3s in the master bedroom but the im hoping I can be good without a sub.

Next learning project I guess, room correction. There’s ARC , Dirac, mini dsp…..any others worth learning about?

I always thought room correction was more aimed at theatre applications not 2 channel.

How do the purists manage their rooms and systems with out room correction?

Yeah...the actives would fit you quite nicely.

2-channel systems are also prone to room effects.

I could be cheeky and say purists manage their rooms and systems with $80,000 power cables. But then, there's my special lady friend. Huge room including sloped, tall ceiling and not a single parallel surface. No room correction needed for her M5s or other speakers. All runs off my 22 year old Denon and it sounds astounding. Not a single speaker reveals itself and the M5s throw the sound like my actives.

Oh now you did it … insulting both tubes and vinyl in the same breath as pleasantly distorting devices .

Hi Kodiak

What kind of music do you listen to?

Steve Guttenberg (the guy whose review of the M3Ti got me into Axioms) reviewed the Raisong Bayou A10. He loved it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCk12xzivp8

It is a low power integrated SET tube amp from Red China. I sent one to Ian but it arrived from the US messed up. Audio Science says it measures like crap, but sounds really good.

Amazon has them for $399 USD. If you like head banging music, this may not be the one for you. If you listen mostly to female/male vocals, jazz, instrumentals, this may be a really great choice.





It uses EL34s, an exceptionally sweet sounding tube.

You can get a little bluetooth external transmitter.

I wouldn't use room correction for 2 channel. The less in the signal path the better.

Just a thought. Enjoy whatever you get!!

PS There is an Antique Sound Labs MG Si 15 DT with remote on canuckaudiomart used $750 Loonies. Oops, marked sold. I'd keep an eye out for one of these. They use KT88s and 12ax7s. They can be found, used, for about the same price as the Raisong. They're rated 5 wpc Triode, and 15 wpc Pentode. Their transformers are terrific! They are an incredible match for the M3s.

My opinion, you listen to music not measurements.

Hey 2x6, I think I read this and meant to respond…..

I listen to pretty much everything but lean towards blues and jazz, and rock and folk.

I’ve seen reviews on the Reisong and others like Willsenton R8. I eyed up a CJ tube amp as well on Canuck Audio Mart too. A CAV-50. I’m really intrigued by tube amplifiers and my master bedroom with the m3v4 in there might fit the bill. We ll see. Right now I’m just enjoying them with my solid state yammie.

I’ll post more thoughts here later on my initial m3 experience, for those that are interested, but so far I know I’m keeping them and without trying or anything the sweet spot / off axis performance is miles better than my m60 ti.

I actually tried them really haphazardly and just plunked them on top of my dresser that is too high which puts the woofers in line with it just below my ears. Sounded amazing! Lots more experimenting needed to get it dialed. These will likely end up on stands of some sort I think.

That's what I found when I tried the M3v4 against my M80v2. And I was a full-on hater of M3ti.

All the V4 bookshelves and on-wall bookshelf versions are really good. Of the floor-standing I personally have only heard the actives which are amazing. The M3v4 is a great little speaker. I had them as mains for a little while before changing them out for the M22/EP500 combo which now is a M2/EP500 combo. Note I tried the M3/EP500 combo but felt the M22 and M2’s had a slight edge (that I only noticed by comparing them side by side).

Whoops, meant to comment here, got my threads confused.....

Well that's good feedback, thankyou. Its certainly a setup configuration im considering for my great room. M5hp, twin ep500 and an ada 1250 or ada 1500 and a preamp ( no idea what this might be for choice...) but i'm trying to consider building it up over a few years and do it in a way that leads to an omnidirectional setup. We'll see, as always, im full of ideas. But we are taking the first steps thisspring to start our great room , it's still very plain and unfinshed as of right now, been away working too much. But we've put some solid time into how we want tit all to look and function.

Spend some time listening to both the M3 and M60 in there. See what qualities you like of those two. The M5 will give you similar sound as the M60 while disappearing as well as the M3.

Will do thanks. I know i like the midrange of the m60ti , ALOT. The M3v4 is super easy to make disappear. The bass is really good to it's roll off and dooesnt try too hard, but what it does play is really good. The image is really good too, there is better seperation between the objects than with the m60ti, but the midrange is not as front and center, and i really like that.

107 db is plenty loud! I think the only reall advantage with the m100 is that maybe it plays even louder? ( and with linearity due to the multiple drivers sharing the load...) but i dont need to listen at 107db very often. My hope is to fill our large space with the right configuration that it is full bodied and as good off axis and "invisible" a possible. I really enjoy full bodied bass too, occasional r and b and rap are super fun and sub bass is super fun.

Another observation; to really get the locked in Center image with m60ti my receiver absolutely had to be in “ Pure Direct “. But with the m3v4 I can have that disengaged and play with the tone controls a bit too and the large and wide image stays in place and allows plenty of enjoyments from many positions.

It's the v4 "tuning" vs. the ti. Like I said many times, even though I despised the M3ti, I found the M3v4 to be more enjoyable than my M80v2.

Yeah. The m3v4 is a really great little speaker. I really like it. I’m going to try it tomorrow in the big room and do an unofficial a/b test with them off the yammie. I’m going to use the a/b speaker switch, that should be relatively quick change. I’ll let y’all know how it goes.

I’m most curious about the treble. I haven’t listened to my m60ti in awhile.

Try them with the tweeter below ear level.

Heads up you cannot reliably A/B test in a room unless the speakers are in the same location. Its an annoying trait of small room acoustics.

Moving the M3s to the same spot as the M60s is needed. Thats why harman has the speaker shuffler mechanism in their setup. Setting speakers beside eachother changes their loading and interaction with the room. The center to center distance of the front baffles is enough to have drastic results in small rooms. At least reverse the speaker positions and test again.

Moving M5s in my room 14 inches changed them from unlistenable to superlative. Food for thought.

Provided the speakers under test have "similar" radiation characteristics, I agree with putting them in the same position. I don't know if the radiation characteristics between ti and v4 are similar enough. While they sound different, the defining characteristics may be close enough that they do need to be in the same position.

What do you guys think about needing to re-calibrate the receiver for each speaker? (Which pretty much kills the utility of an A/B switch, you'd have to have two identical receivers.)

I remember auditioning Linn products in the late 1980's or early 1990's and their mentality was that you can only have the speakers that are being auditioned in the listening room - no other speakers.

It made it fun when we wanted to hear the 2 largest models they made...essentially the size of full sized refrigerators called the Isobariks or something like that!

Everything within a room affects response. The speaker, the room and everything in it, form a system.

There's a local high end audio dealer in town that used to throw great RSVP product demonstrations. I sat in the product launch of the Linn Klimax stereo loudspeaker around maybe 2004, and no one ever questioned the merit of stuffing 15 bodies into a non-air conditioned room at a time, nor the insanity of listening to a stereo pair where only those sitting in the center experienced any spatial qualities.

In hindsight, I prefer the sub-sat form factor for versatility, and audio listening through a 5.1 set-up for a wider sweet spot.