Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo ISO Looking for an Axiom DSP1 for LFR1100's

I just acquired a pair of Axiom LFR1100's which unforfonately have the DSP Digital Sound Processor missing. I need the basic DSP (the DSP1) which is used between the Preamp and the power amps. Can anyone help?
I contacted Axiom and a new DSP is a big $ hit so I'm looking for "pre-owned"
Thanks in anticipation
Rod In New Denver, BC

Please explain how this can possibly be. Did you get shafted by the seller?

Man, I love your part of BC. I drove through all the little towns and what used to be mining villages and felt the ghosts of old-time miners talking to my soul. I had everyone young and old admiring my 42 year old camper van and gave rides to teens and old codgers and none of that ever happens where I live.

I can't imagine anyone having a DSP without speakers ... but then I can't imagine someone selling an LFR without the DSP (Unless it's a scammer who wants to sell you the missing DSP separately for some extra $$)

I assumed you contacted the seller ... if they don't have it (or wants more money for it) and won't take the speakers back then you probably have a fraud case against them.

If you paid it in anything but cash (gift cards and bitcoin or any other untraceable means) I'd talk to that financial institution. If you bought it though ebay, amazon, or any of those sites they might also handle it for you. I'd also file a police report (It might help down the line).

Otherwise, you can try someone higher up at Axiom ... I'm sure they will help a bit on the money side but it's probably still going to be expensive (as these thing a fairly high quality and assembled in Canada).

I hope you find a reasonable solution, Rich

Maybe "acquired" means he hawked them? Dude, did you pilfer those LFRs from some rich dude? So cool. Crooks need audio too. Next time you need to take the DSP too. And maybe an amp or two.

I reply to both of you. I knew what I was getting into. No I didn't "steal" them nor was I scammed. The Lady I bought them from does not know anything about stereos and stuff. I tried to educate her on the missing DSP. but It could not be found. It turns out her Husband is incapacitated with Demetia and the where abouts now is unknow by the family... . Apparently there's more stdff in storage but any chance of further searches is out of my hands. Hence my cry for help

Aw geez! That's actually a better story than scamming or stealing.

I see this as Axiom's fault. If they designed the LFRs with dementia in mind, we customers wouldn't have to put up with problems like these.

So here's what I'd do. I'd send an e-mail to Axiom explaining the situation. And make sure you blame them. But say you are a kind and forgiving soul so you'll give them a chance to rectify their problem. Then ask them for their best trade-in price on a pair of active LFRs.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/omnidirectional-active-speaker

I have them and so does Rich. I love mine. Rich doesn't but he did say they're the best speakers he's ever heard.

Mojo, I get the feeling that money may have some meaning here ...
Farthings ... excuse my friend ... he's kind of crazy but keeps us entertained here ...

The DSP might still show up. It's worthless without the speakers ... I'd print out or email the DSP pictures off the website and give it to them.
That way if they find it they will know what it is ... then wait and see if it turns up. If you paid money for them they should agree to take the speakers back if not found.

In the meantime you can see what Axiom can do for you on getting a DSP at some reasonable number ... Good Luck ...

Well Rodney, if you need cheering up, here's some entertainment from the Farthing land.

https://youtu.be/17RtLpZgqiA

Thanks rriev. So, I got a fair deal on M100's... . Mojo --- be careful with what you say! BTW, Am I supposed to know who Rich is?

Rich is rrlev. Look at his signature on the first post of this thread.

Nope. Sorry. They are NOT M100s!

Aha! I'm just getting used to this forum. Mojo, please enlighten me. What is the physical difference of these speakers besides the 1100 having rear drivers? Is there a separate enclosure for the 1100's rear drivers ? I have the passive 1100's which I presume has a hi pass filter from 180Hz up?

Physically, the 1100 looks the same as the M100 with three exceptions: the rear drivers, extra set of terminals, and the angled rear baffle. I don't remember if the vortex port count and location is the same.

The interior bracing may be different and the amount of sound dampening. My active 1100 includes more bracing and is stuffed to the gills compared to the M100v4.

The 1100 has two internal cross-overs: one for the front driver array and another for the rear. The M100 has a single cross-over.

The 1100 also has the DSP. The DSP steers a set of frequency bands to the front cross-over and a set to the rear. The DSP is the secret sauce that makes the LFR an LFR.

Now you might ask, so what? If the 1100 has twin cross-overs, and I decide to only use the front driver array, it will sound like an M100, right? Not so fast! The cross-over for the 1100 front driver array is not the same as the cross-over for the M100. Recall that the DSP steers frequencies to the front driver array and those frequencies are different than the full audio spectrum delivered into the M100. Hence, the front array cross-over is of a different design compared to the cross-over of the M100.

Without the DSP, not only do you not have an LFR, you don't even have an M100.

You could consider buying the M100 cross-over and doing surgery to convert the 1100 to an M100. But it may be a franken-100 because of the bracing, stuffing, different vortex port configuration and rear driver array. Every change affects the sound!

Think he’s talking about different pair of speakers…
I just saw the posts that got in before this I got this one in.

Think Debbie (a knowledgeable Axiom employee) once told me that she had a pair of LFRs she used that way.
So, I bet using only the fronts will work fine but Mojo might be right in that she might have been doing it through the DSP.

Rodney is asking what the difference is between LFR and M100 and why he can't make a DSP-less LFR sound like an M100.

My answer fully resolves his question in plain, grammatically-correct English like I learned from Sesame Street and the Electric Company. Mmmmmk?

Debbie is not as discriminating as us. She shouldn't have anything more than M2 in her room.

Ok, I edited my post above because (I hate to admit it) you’re probably right.
I’d call axiom …
It’s a bit of a pain these day since all the key people seem to be tied up in the Bryston integration

Mojo. why would the LFR passive have a different crossover than the M100 on the front? it wouldn't make any sense as why would the be doing any sound alteration inside a crossover when it is far more possible to do any sound changes inside the DSP.

From what I understood, it's not that they are cutting out some parts of the sound and frequencies from the front and sending that sound out to the back. More that they are reproducing some of the sounds / frequencies that the front part of the speaker is making, and sending them out the back speakers with a very specific "secret sauce" alteration to timing so that the sound from the back gives a perfectly timed echo to what was made out the front giving you size and depth. I remember the Mirage Omni speakers but as they didn't have any of the electronics and DSP that the LFR have, it did give a more open sound, but was difficult as it really depended on the placement inside a room and the rooms dynamics.

Perhaps you can enlighten us in your engineering analysis of the crossover differences between the M100 and the LFR1100 so that we can all be better educated by your knowledge.

I’lll put in my thought on that …. Having the DSP altering the signal to the front would allow them to fine tune the curves better. They could do that by just modifying the signal going to a M100 crossover or modify the crossover (most probable reason would be to get better efficiency) and let the DSP the main lifting. In my mind it, with out more data, we just don’t know.

The other question is what is the DSP doing to the front signal to make it OMNI-Directional? If only linearizes the curves to a M100 crossover and doesn’t modify anything for the OMNI part then driving the front LFR without it is fine.

Hmmm...I looked at the cross-over service parts on the Axiom site. I see only a single LFR cross-over and I assume this must be for the rear driver array. This implies the same cross-over is used for the rear driver array of the LFR660/880/1100. It also implies the cross-over for the front driver array is the same as the M60/80/100 (three different ones).

Rodney, I think you can use it as an M100 without the DSP.

I don't think I wrote that last line correctly ... so I'll rewrite it ... (BTW, I seem to be cross posting with Mojo ... his last post sneaked in before mine)

The other question is what is the DSP doing to the front signal to make it OMNI-Directional? If only linearizes the curves to a M100 crossover and doesn’t modify anything for the OMNI part then driving just the front LFR with it it is fine too ... you'll get a more refined sound in that case.


I'll also add that if Mojo is right about the changes internally changing the sound of the LFR significantly .... it might still have a reasonably tuned crossover which can be feed directly ... again it's something to ask Axiom ...

One more thought ... if it sounds good to you, your happy, and don't feel a need to look further ... then you don't have to just because we said you should. If you do ... post it here as many of us would appreciate knowing.

Rich, the DSP handles high Q correction and boundary compensation. The low Q correction is done in the cross-overs.

Unless that cross-over board has both the front and back cross-overs on it ...

Would it be the same cross-over for the 660/880/1100?

I see where your going ... after rereading you're post on parts ... I'll give it to you ...

If the LFRs share the same x-over and the M60/M80/M100 have different x-overs then there is a high likelihood the the LFR1100 uses the M100 x-over.

Which mean that if the structural changes doesn't significantly effect the sound (which the DSP corrects) then Rodney's statement of having an M100 equivalent is correct. I personally would still ask Axiom.

The 1100's front drivers only sound good to me even if the crossovers are not as the M100. But who am I to know?. I don't have M100's to compare them. Is there an in house Axiom person who can answer these questions.
No one in Axiom seems to be aswering the company's online "Contacts"
Also who, in Axiom, can I talk to about obtaining a used DSP?

Well, you didn't buy from them so I wouldn't answer either. As for a used DSP from Axiom, if they had one, it would come with LFRs and it would be under Deals.

Are you getting a nice soundstage and imaging? I can come over and tell you if they sound like M100s.

Hey Farthing,

What are you using for amp/pre amp or power and sources? Did the speakers come with amps?

Don’t listen to Mojo. If he ran the business it would be out of business!

Axiom had/has a rep for always being helpful to everyone.
You just need to get in touch with the right person … but your timing couldn’t be worse …

Axiom is going though some major growing pains at the moment. Everyone is having issues with getting in touch with them.
What used be just a phone call seems to take many. All the people I’ve interacted with lately seem to be new and I think have to ask others on anything but a straightforward order. Although I’m guessing, I believe, the people who can answer you are overwhelmed with the Bryston integration. I’m also guessing that communications other than replies to orders confirmation emails are not being tracked and get lost. Unfortunately, that means a lot of emails and calls are going unanswered. This is not good for business and the higher up know it. I can only assume they are working on it.

They can't keep up because people buy LFRs, get dementia, sell their LFRs with no DSP, and the new buyers swamp them with calls asking for DSP discounts or M100 conversions!

And then you have those who study the graphs and want to know if a pimple at 200Hz is going to matter in their room.

I'm using a Nelson Pass designed Forte model 3. 200WPC into 8 or 400 into 4 ohms. I switch to two Emotiva XPL-1L monoblocks 250W-8 / 500W-4 each. I like these the best of the amps.
They can also run in Class A to 35WPC otherwise. They are A then AB after 35W , auto switching. Thinking of using the Forte for the rear driverss (whenever that happens)

Hey guys - How do I delete a reply posting?

Sweet. Those are good options. I think Nelson Pass was also the desinger of the now vintage but equally famous Adcom amps.

Man that DSP and those AMPs must be somewhere....they just don't know that they were part of the package. I'm sure they will turn up eventually.

Until then have fun with it man! Cool stuff!

Hit edit and then delete. Cool beans amps BTW.

Don't think he had amps for the LFR's but maybe they are lost too. These are passive LFR1100's. I had the Emotiva's and the Forte 3 before buying the LFR1100's. I am in touch with the seller so I am hopeful too the DSP will appear someday.

The cross-over frequencies for the M100 and LFR are the same.

That's more evidence that the LFR can be converted to an M100 (with the stuffing and bracing caveats I expounded upon earlier).

Farthing you should rip out the guts of those extra omni drivers on the back. Yo'uve got enough there to make 2 pairs of m2's! Just need some cabinets. Get some wood veneer sample blocks from axiom and plug the holes left behind and you're styling. All you'd need is center channel and some subs and you're at a 7.1 or 7.2 system. I'm surprised I beat mojo to this idea. I'm pretty proud of myself!

That's a sign of strong mental health.

Damned brilliant!

Or m22's!! Do it!

Or m44's!! Do it!

Lime Mankini Enterprises can assist you. If you don't know who that is he will let you know....

I know you're laughing or at least chuckling now mojo....

Yup! I see nothing but humor everywhere I look. Don't be surprised if you find out I sold my actives and forgot about the DSP.

Butchering the LFR's to make a some bookshelf speakers seems a strange idea. No, i won't do it. Total madness!

Hi Mojo. Are you saying you prefer the M100's then?

Mojo, What a great idea ... just cut the LFR's into two box's and you'll get the tweeters below ear level ...
If Ian and Andrew weren't so busy they might be able to do a custom design for you ...

On second thought why wait ... you do have a chain saw ... don't you?

It's not so nuts. I butchered an M100 to make the bottom floor of my center.

I think you should enjoy your LFRs as M100s, yes.

looks like two M5s on there side to me ... but it does give the impression of an Axiom center

if I remember correctly ... I think you have 3 subs supporting the low end on that system ... so ...
do the M5s add much (over the VP160 alone)? or are you now checking out stacking horizontally?

I decommissioned my multiple centre speakers in favor of the ALFR virtual centre. And yes...I have channel-specific subs.

I am. M100's are goodly

Aye. Turn them up. Maybe I'll hear them as I cross the Kootenays into the Okanagan.

Hi Kodiak. I've been dosing for a while and trying to catch up on this thread. To answer you, I'm using two Emotiva XPA-!L moniblockes rated at 500 watts into 4 ohms and intent to use a Forte Model3 (a Nelson Pass design) for the rears once I get a DSP. No I didn't buy them with the LFR1100's

Now that dosing is legal, the number of zombies in the west has grown geometrically. Maybe, to your good fortune, one of those will sell their DSP and forget about selling their LFRs.

Well rriev. I finally got a DSP. Axiom were kind enough to build a new DS!1 me me. I haven't evaluated the LFR1100's fully yet but I like what I hear so far.

Glad you got that resolved
Love to know your impressions ...

Hi rriev, I'm experimenting with the DSP, trying different speaker positions and orientations and have not come to a conclusion. I'm having trouble understanding how the DSP works and the setup. I'd like to start a discussion in a New tread... > let's call it .... "Passive LFR1100's and what to expect".