Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Bryston's placeholders for new speakers

It's been a while since I've been on Bryston's website. It looks like there's a transition to new loudspeaker models for 2023. Hopefully there will be more differentiation from Axiom models. Will some of these spill over as new Axiom speakers? Time will tell.

https://bryston.com/passive/

https://bryston.com/wireless/

The wireless appears to be a Bryston-branded Force and Freedom. Likely the soundbar will be the same.

The Trim T will be an M3 with an 8" cerametallic woofer, tiny T same but 6.5" cerametallic woofer.

These are all Mojo facts.

The ZR is a group of bipolar subs in 8", 10", 12".

didn’t Bryston used to have a repackaged Storm Audio 16ch prepro?
Did I miss it, imagine it or did it disappear?

Yes. Are they not selling it now?

They may have nixed it because they don't believe in room correction. <snicker/snort>

Didn’t see it in prepro or discounted… maybe you can find it …
If it’s gone wonder if something is in the works to replace it …

I’d like to believe that I & A took up the challenge to come up with their own …

Get the Air working properly first. Until that happens, the right to *engineer* more firmware and software has not been earned.

I’m not sure they have the right software people working on that problem. I’m not overly happy with the software in my transformers … nor do I love the Axiom UI/UE ….

Same here Rich. It feels clunky. Needs refinement.

Bryston stopped selling it about 2 years ago.

It’s a bit worse off than clunky … my wife uses it the most. 1/2 the time for music and 1/2 for internet radio.
Took about 1/2 a year for her to figure out the UI enough not to call me to fix it every time she switched stations or to/from music.

Several problems
1) it’s not obvious which xformer/air you’re controlling … we have 2 units running (used to have 4 but took 2 off to simplify things)
2) sometimes a buffer doesn’t get cleared so when you switch stations the old one continues to play for a while (which results in a user feedback loop)
3) every once in a while I have to reset a unit (a pain since both are on a high shelf and requires a ladder)
4) the UI it self was obviously never user tested. There are actually ways, methods for doing this.

My wife has suggested that I help Axiom out (this is supposedly my area) but coming up to speed on all the open source stuff would be a killer time sink. Way too much time for a side project …

Totally agree on all that. I was considering buying a second transformer. We have 2 in ceiling stereo setups that are pre wired into the house. One in kitchen and one out on the deck. Speakers are in place and wiring comes to the internet phone cable junction box in the basement. I was considering putting a transformer there but it’s too clunky. And I think my wife would also not use it if it were not easy to use.

I’m not sure what else to use in place of that. I was thinking even just a 2 zone integrated blue tooth capable unit like a Denon with heos or a Yammie with Music cast. Keep it simple.

Anyway, yes the ui needs work. I have concerns with volume control sometimes too. So I usually control it physically vs digitally so I don’t risk it.

I also find sometimes I need to reset it twice ( turn off on power) to make it connect from being off for awhile. ( I turn it off in when it’s in our bedroom bc those blue leds are super bright ). When I just leave it on it’s fine it stay connected.

On the positive side when I run Spotify connect it works flawlessly and is responsive. And I will say the DAC is really good. It sounds very good streaming high quality files. I haven’t heard a ton of different dacs but the transformer sounds excellent in my opinion.

I think eventually ( after buying a new DAc / steamer / network player for great room ) the transformer will end up living in the bedroom setup.

You could work for Axiom remotely and fix the software and get staff discounts! Do it! In your spare time right. ?

Cheers.

Kodiak, regarding your in-ceiling speakers, may I suggest to use them as target practice with a shotgun?

I’d practice first at mojo’s place …
From 100 paces;
1 point subwoofer
2 points woofer
5 points mid
10 points tweeter

Lots of points to be scored at mojos place!

I personally don’t need or want the in ceiling speakers but they came with the house and are there, and.. my wife is keen on them and having a simple to use system with her phone as the only thing to use or interact with has her stoked. She wants to be able to be in the kitchen and have either music streaming from her Spotify account or to have the tv sound going so she can hear her shows and see them on the other side of the great room on the big screen. And if she is keen on something audio and or video that’s great! She’s not interested in the main system at all. She likes the bedroom system to play a record.

But agreed, in ceiling speakers are not my first choice for a quality listening experience.

Also, more in line with this thread, I hate the Bryston website. The place markers are strange. They don’t really work. It’s a weird way to display your lineup. Not a fan of the website at all.

It's not only the website that's a mish-mash but also all the sales and marketing collateral.

What do you mean by sales and marketing “collateral “?

Anything a company publishes that helps market and sell its products and services.

I had a closer look at their site as a lurker. As a Gen X'er rather than the baby boomer target audience (the half-deaf ones retiring en masse), I'm just not a candidate for old school audiophilia. I'll let the fantasy of owning racks of equipment, loudspeakers that play over 110 dB, and stereo listening die off with that generation.

My gripes of the site (with unsolicited commentary):
- No MSRP pricing (because dealers would gripe about not being able to dictate price?)
- Too much use of renderings (because they don't have enough margins to hire a photographer?)
- Indecipherable model names (because who doesn't love studying their product catalog for the sake of coding, the sending of signals that you're "in the know", in hopes of receiving an acknowledgment that you possess advantage?)
- For a company with a reputation for engineering, why counter it with questionable products such as power conditioners? (or for that matter, 4-figure DAC's, headphone amps, and phono pre-amps)
- testimonials from dealers (I can't make this stuff up)

I personally think the future is full bandwidth wireless multichannel, but I don't think they have the technical experience to pull it off unless there's some sort of wireless system-on-a-chip that's commercially available for integration.

I'm not attempting to defend but just consider an alternate viewpoint:

No MSRP pricing (because dealers would gripe about not being able to dictate price?)

No MSRP because they want inquiries to generate leads.

- Too much use of renderings (because they don't have enough margins to hire a photographer?)

Maybe they want to spend the money elsewhere. Maybe they don't have the time to arrange photos. Maybe they haven't built the goods yet.

- Indecipherable model names (because who doesn't love studying their product catalog for the sake of coding, the sending of signals that you're "in the know", in hopes of receiving an acknowledgment that you possess advantage?)

Indecipherable names because engineers are running the show.

- For a company with a reputation for engineering, why counter it with questionable products such as power conditioners? (or for that matter, 4-figure DAC's, headphone amps, and phono pre-amps)

I know very well there is a market for this stuff.

- testimonials from dealers (I can't make this stuff up)

I wish I had testimonials from my "dealers". They do nothing but complain so they can get price concessions.

The market for racks and SPL exists and is full of profit:

"I have a 9.1.6 Config with 3 A1500's. Watch movies 97% of the time. Amplifiers really provide explosive/dynamic sonic pressure at a movie's crescendo ... where music intensity and sound from special effects combine together for a noticeable visual effect (VFX). You can really feel additional sonic pressure kicking in through the wides and heights in movies like John Wick 3.

I have 8 M80s for base speakers ... along with VP180 and VP150 for center speakers. My heights are six M5s. My crossovers are set at 50Hz for M80/VP180 and 60Hz for M5s. Very happy with the A1500 amplifiers. Axiom has truly exceptional support/service with the A1500!

-JJ"

Looks like Bryston recently added the T10 models to their line-up. They seem to be available as either passive or active models.

And those listening window and sound power curves look...amazing. +/- 1.0 dB through most of the amplitude response curves. I have yet to see a loudspeaker on EAC or ASR with better theoretical measurements. Add a sub and you've found your end game loudspeaker. Bring a back brace if you want to move it.

Where did you find the SP and LW curves for the T10?

I only see two models with SP and LW curves.

This is the document with measurements:

http://support.bryston.com/downloads/Loudspeakers/Bryston_Speaker_Technical_T10_Manual.pdf

It’s a work in progress with placeholders and various spelling mistakes, so model-specific graphs are coming if they continue their documentation tradition. It’s surprisingly free of audio BS, though it seems like a stretch to call a speaker stack a line array. I’m glad bipolar subwoofers are coming back, and hope Axiom gets them too.

I assume only the active models will have such tight tolerances. The NRCC research says that if your loudspeaker has a listening window and sound power/directivity index curve that is straight and predictable (free from spikes, dips, and changes in direction), it will win double blind listening tests. We seem to like neutral speakers with no resonances or colorations (and I consider the wrong bass level to be a coloration).

Bryston should be able to please neurotic/disagreeable spreadsheet jockeys/armchair quarterbacks that hang on every word that EAC and ASR say, while at the same time also pleasing the connoisseurs/enthusiasts/gatekeepers who buy audio by the pound and decor sense by the carat.

For the rest of us, it doesn’t matter. The marginal utility gained from trading in an Axiom V.4 loudspeaker will probably be minimal and would be better served with multiple subwoofers or finding trustworthy music curators.

The curves in the T10 document you referenced are for the Model T active; not the T10.

I'll say it again. The Model T active LW curve is horizontal. The LFR1100 active is downward sloping at 3dB/decade. Why is that?

My theory is Bryston customers believe a horizontal LW is superior. Maybe because their room walls are covered with mattresses. In a typical room, the Model T actives would sound bright while the LFR1100 Actives sound right.

My theory is Bryston aimed at older people with money; this audience is typically losing the higher frequencies, so a little boost couldn't hurt.

I couldn't find the curves for the Model T Active. The brochure didn't have it. If anyone has a link I'd appreciate if you posted it.

Page 3 has the Model T curves, but page 11 has a curve that I'm assuming is one of the T10's. It would be nice if they labeled it. Looking closer, it seems like it could be +/- 0.75 dB from 60 Hz to 15,000 Hz. LW and SP are a single composite curves from dozens to hundreds of measurements, so that's some serious engineering or software wizardry.

The LFR 1100 Active listening window slopes because it has to, in order for an omnidirectional speaker to sound good.

https://youtu.be/sL-W3qn4-WU?list=LL&t=1111
(time cued)

A bipolar or line array design might have different listening window slopes from a point source design. I haven't seen anyone talk about it. In the end, the listening tests determine which measurements matter.

I stand corrected. The second set of curves in the brochure is the T10.

I watched that video but missed the part about the downward-tilting curves being applicable only to the ALFR. Thanks.

Cork, the curves for the active T are shown in the first plot of the document above.