Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Is it just me...?

I'm running a pair of M60s (among other speakers in the mix), but does the M60s just not seem to produce a lot of volume? Perhaps this is a limitation of my receiver (H/K 630)? I don't know. It's like the bass comes to life when I add the subwoofer, but without it the lows seem kinda quiet. Thoughts? Suggestions? Rebukes

Greetings,
I have the M60's, QS8 (x3), VP150 and STF-3 powered with a Yamaha 5660 (90w x 6) and mine just roar if I let them.
How do you have your cross overs set?
b.

Actually...let me rephrase this. If I put them in standalone stereo...no subwoofer...then I feel they lack. When I put a sub with it, it sounds great. I mean. I'm not complaining at all about the overall sound. I love it. But when they stand alone I feel like the bass is quieter.

...and yes...I realize that those speakers will be quiter than a sub. I'm just talking, less than I expected. Compared to my old Bose speakers (cringe) they don't produce as much bass. But...what it does produce overall is great.

Sounds reasonable to me... If you're used to a sub, they're not gonna fill the room like a sub does.

Ahh, you said the magic words. Bose speakers accentuate the very frequencies that are pleasing to many people's ears. For bass, that's around 200Hz. Because the M60s are so much more accurate than those bose speakers, you no longer have a huge emphasis at 200Hz, and your brain misses it.

I tossed on a couple of CD's turned the sub off and just to see how I used to feel about the M60's by themselves. I used Dire Straits - Sultans of Swing, The Band - The Weight, Stevie Wonder - Sir Duke, and Maxi Priest (w/Shaggy) - That Girl. I think the best description of the sound is that the bass is tighter than you may be used to ie. they aren't boomy. If you have Maxi Priest (a poor recording in my opinion) you'll definitely feel the bass - lash down your furniture if you decide to throw in the Sub.

I had the same initial impressions when I got the M60's - they made me realise how boomy my old speakers were.

Sean

you may have them set to small to use with the sub. i know if i set mine to large and turn the sub off bass is pretty decent. however the bass doesn't compare to what my old marantz speakers produced.

Same here. Set your speakers to Large if you can do so with your amp and see if there is a difference.

Sean

No. All of my speakers are set to large, even my M2s. My receiver manual said that you only need to set a speaker to small if it can't handle anything below 200 HZ...which all of the Axiom speakers can. I tried, for kicks, putting my VP150 to small and demoed some dialogue. It sounded lacking and the voice sounded somewhat thin. I put it back to Large...ahh..all better. So I'm a firm believe that just because you have a subwoofer (which I do) you don't need to set your speakers to small (especially if you have your sub crossed over at something like 80 HZ). Most speakers on their own won't go that low...so there in lies the balance Confusious.

My receiver will automatically set the mains to Small if THX speaker system is selected. Not sure if it adjusts to Large for two channel sound - Marantz documentation does not elaborate on that point.

Sean

Here is my impression:

my gears: Denon avr-3805, Axiom M60,VP100,M3.
default setting from Denon : FL/FR/Center/SR/SL=LARGE and Sub=yes with crossover=80hz

When I first play one of my CD, M60 gives lots of bass like i've never heard of bass before, clean and tight. And I play it with default setting from Denon.

THen, when the sub arrives and after running auto setup in Denon, the bass is much louder and better.

After a while, I turn off the sub ,the bass seems to be weaker. I think it's just because I get used to listening to music with the sub already.

However, it also depends on the source as well. In general, I turn off the sub when the source produces too much bass, otherwise, i leave it on or manually turn down the volume on the sub about 10 o'clock setting (11 o'clock when i watch movie). I read somewhere that you will have to adjust both gain control and volume control of sub to match the main speakers. By the way, auto setup always set my FL/FR to large and center to small.

It is not just you... I just recieved my 60's and I feel the same way about the bass. It seems to be lacking or not even there. I am running my denon 3805 on the factory default settngs while I install the remaining qs8's and await my subwoofers arrival. The cross over is set at 80, the are on large, and I even raised the bass setting +3db.

I know that once a subwoofer arrives and is added they should be great. It is disturbing though that the 60 doesnt produce the lower frequencies enough to be a stand alone pair of speakers. Hopefully this will resolve itself to my satisfaction once the sub is added..and hopefully it arrives before the 30 day return time ends so I can make my decision.

And fyi I dont have any preconcieved notion of music with a subwoofer since I have never had one. I just feel that the 60's should be producing lower frequencies as well as the do mid and highs (which is great)

Um, if you've got a crossover set on the reciever and no sub, it doesn't surprise me for one second that you don't have enough bass.

nenjoyment,
Congrat on Deon 3805. this is a great piece of equipment and i'm still learning it.
I think M60's bass is good enough for me. I rarely play loud. I even try one of the techno type cds i have and the bass is tight and not boomy , even though it's not like thunder with a sub.

I'm sure you'll be happy with M60+sub. To me, i don't see one setting can play all modes either M60 alone or M60 with sub. I'd prefer music with M60 alone and I'm happy. I had a chance to listen to B&W ( don't remember the model, but it's floor standing) at local Myer Emco dealer. It sounds awesome, but it costs!

anyway, enjoy.

I think it factory defaults sets at 80.. I havent messed with it to much since I been busy running surround wires. I HAD to throw the fronts together so I could hear them. I will try to disable the crossovers when I get home and see if that helps.. One problem is the manual isn't written for a person with no audio experience or understanding.

I don't doubt it for a second. My H/K manual was similarly bad. What speakers are you coming from?

Yeah...i agree. Denon manual is bad. I have a hard time of following the manual and I still keep reading it!

Bose 901's were my last speakers... no sub

Re: Receiver Cross Overs - I did read in my receiver's manual that any THX certified reciever has the receiver crossover set at 80Hz

Sean

I believe that's correct. The THX spec says 80hz. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think their spec also says that a subwoofer isn't allowed to play below 20hz. If you're sub goes below that, it won't pass the THX certification.

blah, blah, blah...All THX is good for is a nifty logo on the front of your gear to wow your non-audiophile friends with. (imho)

reading about all these recievers settings and controls i think to myself..

Ahh thank god im a 2 channel guy. The only control i need to worry about is the volume!

I've had my M60's for 6 or 7 weeks now, and I think they sound great. Plenty loud, and plenty bass. I had someone over tonight for an audition, and we mostly played music in Yamaha's "Direct Stereo" mode, which sends the sound to just the two front speakers without any processing. My guest thought they sounded terrific (I'm pretty sure he will be placing an order soon), and we were both impressed by the bass coming out of 6.5" woofers.

I had checked the calibration on my speakers ahead of time so that the sub was at the same output level on my sound meter, and as we switched back and forth between just the M60's and the M60's plus sub, there wasn't really a huge difference. At least, the difference wasn't enough to make me think that the M60's would be inadequate without a sub for listening to music.

MT and njoy, this might sound unlikely, but it actually was the problem for someone about two years ago: make sure that the woofers on the M60s are actually connected and it's not just the mids and tweeters operating. The connecting straps on the M60 binding posts have to be tight so that both the woofers(bottom post)and mids/tweeters(top post)are operating.

I didnt notice anything concerning location of the speakers. Dont they require some room to breathe, I'm always reading how M60's need to be placed a good distance from the wall....just a thought


Semper Fi

I've had my M60s for almost 2 months now, and I just got my sub last week. I'm still working on getting the sub calibrated properly. About an hour ago, I was sitting there listening to all that nice, clean bass coming from the SVS. Until I realized that I had kicked the power cord out of the sub between adjustments.

It was pretty late, so I didn't have it playing very loud. But that fairly long bass guitar intro was sounding very sweet. I realized that the sub wasn't on when the drummer took the very first kick.

Move them around a little. You might have them sitting in a room mode. That can take a chunk out of your frequency response. There is bass in them thar speakers. Trust us.

MT, do you have an SPL reading on your max volume? I've gone over 100db with no problem at all. I also have an H/K 630. Anything below -25 (calibrated with Avia to 85dB) is pretty low. -20 to -7 is the range I typically use for listening alone, and -25 to -20 allows conversation without raising your voice (too much).

Good luck,
Michael_A

Denver,

I have to agree with you. I am also using a Yamaha in 2-channel mode and there is plenty of bass coming from the M60s. It is a lot tighter and less boomy than my previous Yamaha speakers. However, it has plenty of boom where needed. As I posted before, there are some tracks on the Titanic soundtrack (my wife put it on) that go way down to the low frequencies. The base rattled the room to the point that I had to check my setting to make sure the sub wasn't on.

Given my experiences w/ these speakers thus far, I have to wonder if this is a receiver settings issue for those stating that the bass is inadequate. IMHO, any more bass from these guys would start to muddy the sound for me and just be a distraction....Again, this is just my opinion.

Craig

I don't think that was the original intent - just a side benefit. In my case, I had settled on the SR-8300 as my receiver of choice. Unfortunately, it is unavailable without THX. I can tell you that the cost of the 8300 vs the 8000 is significantly higher - something that I was not too keen on. The SR-8000 is an excellent receiver without THX.

Sean

To finish up the dilema I was in (lack of bass response)...
It was all factory default settings in the reciever causing it. After playing with reciever for several hours, I think I have it figured out. My Axiom 60's QS'8s sound great. I watched my first movie last night and was quite happy. Damn near screamed at one point...

I just got the M60s to replace the M22s. Had to turn the bass down on my receiver because M60s were giving too much (had bass up high for the M22s previously).