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#53019 - 08/22/04 10:54 AM Re: OT: politics
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
MD... It is nice to know that publicly owned areas are a form of communism. Next year, We get to visit the "People's Republic of Yellowstone Park" ...

Teddy Roosevelt would be SO proud...
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#53020 - 08/22/04 11:00 AM Re: OT: politics
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
MD - I also put the French Ambassador's quote from November 8, 2002 at the UN on the FINAL resolution. You aksed a good question. "Why do the French NOT support our position and the War in Iraq?". They DID support us publicly. Then they backed out later. We waited 4 months after the 30 day ultimatum was passed by the UN.

Unfortunately for the French people, They have a government with no courage.


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#53021 - 08/22/04 11:37 AM Re: OT: politics
Stimpy1 Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 17
Why did the French back out? I'm sure there are a number of reasons no one will ever know.

#1 reason IMO was the "Oil for Food" behind the scenes dealing with Irag and the French government. Seems France and Russia among others did not honor the UN embargo on Iraq and were lining Saddam's pockets and their own with Billions of dollars. They didn't want the world to find out they were dirty. Food never got to the Iraqs and made both sides very rich.

Another reason is that France is very left leaning. Which is why they embrace the Kerry, Clinton and Kennedy's in our culture and hate Bush. Purely political.

The far left loaths war for any reason. Basically pacificts that think both sides are wrong and the issue can be worked out.

Another reason is the French have no military mite to speak of. They are a paper Tiger (much like Germany). You could probably name a half dozen or more 3rd world nations with more military power.

Anyway that how I see it anyway.


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#53022 - 08/22/04 12:04 PM Re: OT: politics
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Now... for some humor regarding the French. In the movie Ocean's 11 ... When Elliott Gould is explaining to Brad Pitt and George Clooney how well guarded the Casinos they want to rob... Gould : "They have enough firepower to occupy Paris" ... then pauses and adds "Ok, bad example, but you get my point" ...

All things that are funny are funny because they are true...
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#53023 - 08/22/04 02:08 PM Re: OT: politics
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
France and Russia, despite public announcements suggesting the contrary, are still building Iran's nuclear weapons production infrastructure. IAEC expects Iran to start producing nuclear weapons as soon as next year.

Here's a piece from "Iran Focus:"

"Girl, 16, hanged in public in Iran Fri. 20 Aug 2004
On Sunday, August 15, a 16-year-old girl in the town of Neka, northern Iran, was executed. Ateqeh Sahaleh was hanged in public on Simetry Street off Rah Ahan Street at the city center.
The sentence was issued by the head of Neka’s Justice Department and subsequently upheld by the mullahs’ Supreme Court and carried out with the approval of Judiciary Chief Mahmoud Shahroudi.
In her summary trial, the teenage victim did not have any lawyer and efforts by her family to recruit a lawyer was to no avail. Ateqeh personally defended herself. She told the religious judge, Haji Rezaii, that he should punish the main perpetrators of moral corruption not the victims.
The judge personally pursued Ateqeh’s death sentence, beyond all normal procedures and finally gained the approval of the Supreme Court. After her execution Rezai said her punishment was not execution but he had her executed for her “sharp tongue”."

As a lifelong liberal, I have to admit that multicultural and moral relativism breaks down as a philosophy in the face of evil. Tolerance of evil does not advance the liberal concept of "tolerance," it advances the cause of evil.

Yes, it may not be easy for liberals to admit, but there is evil in the world. Hannah Arendt was incorrect when she concluded "evil is banal." On the contrary, evil is malignant, active and is at war with us. Yes, friends, we may not be perfect, but remember who spilled into the streets to celebrate when the twin towers came down.

France made a historic and strategic decision under DeGaulle, to align with the Arab block in the UN, attempt to steer a European policy adverse to that of the US. That policy included open immigration from Muslim countries, an about face regarding France's historic support for tiny Israel's contest with its implacable neighbors for its existence, withdrawal from the NATO military structure, and constant adversity to US foreign policy.

Chirac gave a nice sword to Sadam Hussein. I wonder if Hussein took anyone's head with that sword.

Though a lifelong democrat, I was glad, on 9/11 that my guy lost. I felt much more comfortable with an ass kicking cowboy in the White House, someone who sees the world in terms of good and evil, than Gore who would still be discussing our response to 9/11 with the French and Russians and asking the national alter egos of Al Qaeda what we could do to make them less angry at us.

I have a neighbor who ran over to me immediately after the World Trade Center towers came down and asked me whether I agreed with her that building tall buildings was an arrogant insult to "people in that part of the world?"

So, maybe we should just abandon our friends, conform our foreign policy to the demands of the Mullahs, curb our arrogance and build nothing taller than 2 story mud huts, and convert, then maybe we won't earn the understandable hatred of so many.




Edited by 2x6spds (08/22/04 02:10 PM)
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#53024 - 08/22/04 03:35 PM Re: OT: politics
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
2x6 , In addition, In order for this hatred to stop, everyone here will have to give up his Axioms...

NOW maybe people will understand what a life and death struggle this is..

Seriously though, the terrorists do not want to co-exist. They don't want to understand us. They want to kill us. Period.
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#53025 - 08/22/04 05:16 PM Re: OT: politics
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
Maybe the answer isn't giving up our Axioms, but providing them with Axioms! If they got to hear their music with as much clarity and detail as we do, they'd have no reason to want to go out and fight anymore. They'd just sit in their homes amazed at how good music can sound

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#53026 - 08/22/04 08:08 PM Re: OT: politics
Stimpy1 Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 17
Great post 2x6spds! Your showing real promise. For a liberal anyway

Remember the old saying: "If your under 30 and arn't a liberal, you haven't got a heart. If your over 30 and arn't a conservative, you haven't got a brain."

The older I get the more I find this to be true. There is evil in the world, as you stated, that dosen't want to co-exist. Their not misunderstood just bent on evil, pure and simple.

Again great post!

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#53027 - 08/22/04 09:48 PM Re: OT: politics
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Respectfully, Zarak, that's the problem. If you gave someone a nice Axiom set up, in Afghanistan under the Taliban, and if the folks used the system to listen to music, they'd get an escorted trip to the soccer stadium to have their ears removed. The problem is not one of poverty - though we're talking about a part of the world that is incredibly impoverished - a part of the world which makes nothing except the occasional carpet with slave child labor. The problem is a culture - an ethos - a belief system which is intolerant and violent. Just ask the neighbors - the Hindus, the Sikhs, the Christians, the Jews, and if you're a Shia Muslim ask the Sunis, and vice versa. The problem is a belief system not poverty. The 19 fellas who took over our airliners on 9/11 won the trust of the airport security, and the passengers who they convinced they were taking back to the airport. These 19 were not impoverished - they were educated, lived in Europe and America, may have been your neighbor, and were filled with hatred and a malignant murderous intent. They were not alone. I know you were joking, but a nice set of Axioms, a nice fridge and airconditioner, a nice car, are not going to do the trick.
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#53028 - 08/22/04 09:51 PM Re: OT: politics
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
That was some funny (and insightful) sh!t!

You weren't that funny in person. JK, LOL, etc...

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