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#53129 - 09/01/04 03:42 PM Re: OT: politics
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
I agree that Saddam Hussein is and was a bad man. The world is full of bad men. We haven't gone to war with them. I just don't believe that the 2nd Iraqi war was necessary at this moment in time as the administration has claimed. War should only be an option when there are no other options. It appears that our young men and women are being put in harm's way at the wim of administration officials. I believe that this is just wrong.





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#53130 - 09/01/04 04:26 PM Re: OT: politics
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Saddam Hussein is a mass murderer. Iraq is full of mass graves. He was a torturer. He belongs in a box. Just because there are other "bad men," doesn't mean we're not better off with Saddam in a cell. As to the rest of them, may they be put in adjoining accommodations quickly.


Edited by 2x6spds (09/01/04 04:26 PM)
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#53131 - 09/01/04 05:37 PM Re: OT: politics
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
Some more ramblings from one of these dastardly conservatives....

1. I used to be a Liberal. The problem is that I grew up with these idealistic views about life and how the world should be. However, as I got older, I realized that the utopia that I used to espouse required that all involved pulled their weight equally and the government was effective. The problem with that vision is that we have a large segment of society that believes that utopia is achieved via redistribution of wealth and not by hard work and determination. This is dwarfed by the larger problem of our government's inefficiency. Our government is a picture of inefficiency and the concept of providing them 1 cent more than we have to is ludicrous. They have proven beyond a doubt that they are completely corrupt, inept, inefficient, and self-centered. Pair the two together and you have a group of society that believes the government is the savior and a government that is not worthy of 1 ounce of that respect.

2. I'm getting tired of the PC approach to this war on terror. The media is petrified to use the term "Islamic Terrrorist". The Liberals will jump on you stating that these extremists are not representative of Islam. The problem here is that no one wants to tell it like it is. No matter what is at the core of Islam, the extremists, terrorists, and varying regimes are running the show in modern Islam. Like some have said here, the only face of Islam we see is that of the oppressors/despots/terrorists. What you do not hear is anyone in the Islamic world piping in to condemn what is going on. What you don't see is the Muslim world policing itself. All we see is daily terror attack around the world in the name of Islam. It's time for the world to wake up and smell the coffee and call this thing what it is.

3. Abortion is a quagmire, which will probably never be solved. I personally am pro-choice, but I agree that the pro-choice position needs to be revised. Pro-choicers are so scared to allow any revisions to this policy and will not consider the position that late-term abortions should be considered in a different light than early-term abortions (except in the case of mother's safety). This is the only real possibility for the two sides to compromise.

4. The Left constantly pounds on Republicans on their energy policies and our dependance on foreign oil, yet they continue to listen to the extreme environmentalists and oppose drilling in Anwar (spelling?). The GreanPeace nazis continually fight this tooth and nail and then gripe about foreign oil dependancies. What they don't discuss is the fact that this area is a completely desolate and useless area of Alaska comparable to the stepps of Russia. Yes, it will be good to have electric/hydrogen/garbage powered cars, but the technology, efficiency, and cost-effectiveness isn't there yet. So they need to put a cork in the rhetoric and let us tap a resource that is there gathering snow and dust.

5. Tragedies happen in life and my heart goes out to people that suffer from all of the medical tragedies that afflict people. But, people need to be careful about using this as justification for things like universal healthcare. There is a price-tag for that promise the democrats are making about everyone having healthcare equivalent to what congress enjoys. Right now, we can't afford it. We have safety nets for those that are truly needy. Perhaps those safety nets need to be modified/updated...I can't speak to that. However, I cringe when I hear people use personal tragedy as the driver for socialistic policies. We need to be looking at policies such as group plans for small-business owners and individuals that will allow them to get the same buying power as large companies. We should not be looking at the government to be footing the tab. When we do that, we are again going down the road of expecting governement and the taxpayers to do what we should be doing for ourselves.

I could go on, but I'm tired and have to get home to the family.

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#53132 - 09/01/04 06:47 PM Re: OT: politics
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
You see... Having a real dialog is impossible on this. Who was the President when Cheney worked for Haliburton ? Bill Clinton... So, in order for this to fly, you have to think Bill Clinton was in on this with Cheyney... "porked out at the government trough" ...

Cheyney's total contribution was based on 1.2 mill in income ... and he donated more than his entire VP salary...

The vitriol could go on forever... Kerry's donations amount to .025 % of The family fortune...

Anyway... It is not really appropriate for me to comment further... I am not really a "regular" here... please ignore all my posts... and enjoy your speakers
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#53133 - 09/01/04 07:33 PM Re: OT: politics
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
"Anyway... It is not really appropriate for me to comment further... I am not really a "regular" here... please ignore all my posts... and enjoy your speakers"

Craig, newbies and old-timers are equally welcome to contribute to these forums. All input is welcome...even the lunatic leftists. Plus, you can't give up that easy.

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#53134 - 09/01/04 07:58 PM Re: OT: politics
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Hey Craig, I hope you stick around.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#53135 - 09/01/04 08:19 PM Re: OT: politics
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
I don't see any contradiction at all, assuming the baby is an individual with rights and freedoms that all individuals should have. The freedom to kill others wantonly isn't part of any sane person's philosophy I hope.
I'm still "pro-choice", but only early, early, early in the pregnancy.

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#53136 - 09/01/04 08:27 PM Re: OT: politics
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
Craigsub...

In reply to:

BigJohn... If our bodies are not within any government regulations... then...

1. Prostitution should be legal.
2. Drug use should be legal.
3. No woman should be prosecuted for harming a baby because of drug or alcohol use.
4. Seat belt laws should be repealed.




1) yep
2) yep
3) you may have me there
4) yep

I guess it boils down to seeing the world in a different way. In your attempt to catch BigJohn in a pickle, you've listed things that I actually agree with.

I guess that's redundant...now having read BigJohn's response as well. Oh well. I guess it just adds to my point.






Edited by spiffnme (09/01/04 08:33 PM)
_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#53137 - 09/01/04 08:48 PM Re: OT: politics
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
I'm sorry I offended you, Scott, but if you will read my post again (carefully, as I just did ), you will see that I did not in any way infer that the liberal position is philosophically baseless, or that people who hold that view have not reasoned their way through to those positions. I merely stated that the philosophical core to modern liberalism is, IMO, Marx.

I did say (and I'll stand by it) that many of the young folks out there - like the moronic protestors in NY, and a few wonderful but confused members of this forum - may not realize that to advocate for gay rights, drug legalization, abortion rights, etc..., while simultaneously advocating redistributive tax policy, strict limits on the development and/or use of private property, environmental restrictions, etc..., does not reflect a consistent philosophical point of view. You are either FOR individual freedoms OR you are FOR government regulation of individual behavior for the greater good. Everybody seems to want to pick and choose which freedoms they want to keep for themselves and which ones they want to take from others.

Who's writing that stuff for you, 2x6? It is just too good!

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#53138 - 09/01/04 09:45 PM Re: OT: politics
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

...but your subtle implied comparison of Zionism to Islamo-Fascims is without historical or rational force.


I meant no such thing. This subtle implication was fabricated in your own mind.

However, since you brought it up, if Israel's nationalism is founded solely upon religion (e.g. God says this land is ours), then it is indeed flawed. Why? Because other religions think the exact same thing, and far be it from you or me to tell them they are wrong. (That would be culturally insensitive, of course.)
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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