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#52879 - 08/04/04 07:49 AM Re: OT: politics
Michael_A Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 418
Yeah BigWill, It is a very uncomfortable topic to discuss. I think NOT discussing the tough topics causes more problems in the long run, though. One of my cousins is gay, and another recently "discovered" that he's bi right after his 40th birthday. Go figure. I love both of them to death, and they have been 2 of my favorite cousins forever. I've had this very discussion with Jimmy, and we agree on some points and not on others. He regularly calls me to discuss things when he feels like he can't talk to anyone else in the family.

For me the whole issue boils down to the fact that we should be able to come up with a way to accomodate the needs of the gay community without a.) screwing with current religous and social "norms", and b.) making people who object to a behavior, pay to propogate that behavior.

Now, a flat tax, or a national sales tax could take care of that aspect of it... Batter up!

Good day,
_________________________
M- M60s/VP150/QS8s/SVS PC-Ultra/HK630 Sit down. Shut up. Listen.

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#52880 - 08/04/04 08:08 AM Re: OT: politics
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
A. She is a woman that searches out powerful men.

B. She was drunk!

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#52881 - 08/04/04 09:51 AM Re: OT: politics
Radspecv Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Minnesota
Maybe Bush has 10 inches of swinging.....

Anyway, back to the "alternative lifestyle" topic. The company I work for offers all medical benefits to any employee's "domestic partner" as long as they've lived together for the past year. That seems like the best deal - the medical benefits with no marriage penaltywhen they do their taxes. On the tax note, what does everyone think about a flat tax? It seems like a good idea to me.

Pete

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#52882 - 08/04/04 10:13 AM Re: OT: politics
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
i DO NOT agree with a flat tax. of course, this whole tax issue varies with each person, with the main dividing line being 'how much you make'. here is my reasoning.

lets say the flat tax rate is set at 10%.. ok, if you have a guy that makes $1000 bucks, he gets $100 deducted for taxes, and that only leaves him with $900 bucks.. thats not a lot of money.. now, lets say a guy makes $1 million bucks.. he deducts $100,000 in taxes, that still leaves him $900,000 bucks.. thats plenty.

my point being that if you make a lot, and your taxes are higher, you are STILL gonna have a lot when its all said and done. it truly makes me sick to see the sheer greed and self indulgent lifestyles of the extremely rich, and then for them to complain about their taxes. just eat some more caviar, and shut the f*ck up!!

oops, its not like i feel strongly about this or nothing!!

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#52883 - 08/04/04 10:40 AM Re: OT: politics
mhorgel Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 438
Loc: Louisville, KY
BigJohn;

The flaw in your argument is that is that more often than not under the present system the guy making a million dollars pays LESS than 100k in taxes because of the loopholes inherent in the system. Also, most proponents of the flat tax (myself included) also recommend the institution of a national sales tax (for non-essentials, food, clothing, etc. would be exempt) to tax consumption. This would make sure that that millionare paid his share while spending his leftover 900k, and would encourage saving.

A flat tax + national sales tax or VAT would do a lot to cure the ills in this country, as would limiting government spending to 20% of GNP. Did you know that right now government spending is about 40% of GNP? That is a huge number.

Mark
_________________________
"Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff"

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#52884 - 08/04/04 12:42 PM Re: OT: politics
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
In reply to:

With all due respect to you as a person, my belief is that gay couples should not be allowed to adopt children.



Clearly you don't think I'm due much respect.

In reply to:

If we put normal children in gay households, and the environment makes them gay, then we have harmed that child.



That's assuming that being gay is harmful/wrong. The only harmful thing about being gay is having people like yourself tell you your entire life that there's something wrong with you.
In reply to:

or has some other incurable, medically valid cause...



Does being attracted to and falling in love with a person of the opposite sex also have a "incurable, medically valid cause"?





_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#52885 - 08/04/04 01:10 PM Re: OT: politics
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
i have a female cousin on my moms side of the family who is gay, and my uncle on my dads side is gay. my wife also has an aunt that is gay. to be honest, there is no way you could look at these people and not think that they were born gay. i firmly believe that most people that are gay, are just born that way. it is in their person, its not a choice they make. if i had to put it to a ratio, i would say 95% of the gay community were born that way, and the other 5% got there thru sexual experimentation. either way, i dont think it makes them any more, or less of a person than me, it just makes them different. and thats where the stigma is with heterosexuals. its not the act, its more of the unknown, or lack of understanding, that makes people uneasy when dealing with gays/lesbians.

i dont think a child in a gay home is destined to grow up gay. but i will acknowledge that a child in that environment, will have to deal with situations and questions that a child in a heterosexual home would not have to deal with. regardless, gay or not, a good parental unit(man/woman, man/man, woman/woman) should be able to talk to, and explain things to their kids. teaching tolerance begins at home!!

bigjohn




_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#52886 - 08/04/04 01:18 PM Re: OT: politics
Radspecv Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Minnesota
I think there have been studies that have determined that homosexuality cna be caused by hormones being lacking during fetal development i.e. if a boy doesn't get enough testosterone at a certain phase he'll end up gay. It seems to me that the level/amounts missing determine just how gay - from bi-curious gay to Jack McFarland gay. This is just something I heard so I don't know if it's true adn I can't quote the source.

My take - anyone who will provide a good, nuturing home for a child should be allowed to have one. There are plenty of hetero couples that are complete trailer-trash, welfare-aponging losers that don't deserve kids and they get as many as they want. It's a bunch of sh!t.

An interesting note - I have a friend (hetero) who has a twin brother that is gay. I don't think environment had much to do with that one, since they grew up together. Although he spent some time in South America, where they have some kind of ball-grabbing custon.

Pete

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#52887 - 08/04/04 02:11 PM Re: OT: politics
pablo Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 38
Loc: texas
"I think there have been studies that have determined that homosexuality cna be caused by hormones being lacking during fetal development i.e. if a boy doesn't get enough testosterone at a certain phase he'll end up gay. "

To be honest, I think that testosterone stuff is what's gotten me into more trouble than just about anything else over the years.Thank god for those who have less of it to make up & balance out us dudes.

Really I agree with Bigjohn on the tolerence thing - it has to start at the home. From what I can tell it would be awfully difficult for everyone to agree upon what constitutes the ideal / "normal" family in which to raise kids. IMO the key is having 2 loving people that are able to show & share that love with their kids. If you don't have that, it's not a ideal / "normal" family, as least in my view. How do you legislate that ?

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#52888 - 08/04/04 07:12 PM Re: OT: politics
Michael_A Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 418
I think the best tax system would be to figure out how much money the government needs for the year, divide it by the number of citizens over age 18, and send us a bill.

It would probably end up being $32 a person. I don't feel like looking up the actual numbers right now, but it might be interesting to figure out sometime.
_________________________
M- M60s/VP150/QS8s/SVS PC-Ultra/HK630 Sit down. Shut up. Listen.

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