Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo New M60s

Hi,

New guy here. I got my M60ti speakers just about the same time time the NAD T742 / T512 combo arrived.

I can't say I'm not pleased. By the way, there is nothing like the smell of new electronics and speakers; it has it all over a new car smell.

First, the good news. I really like what's not there; the effortless and competent sound lets you know there is no straining here. The sound is transparent even as the volume is turned up. No grunting, no straining at all.

I put Paul Simon's "Graceland" on. I'm more of a classical kind of guy but "Boy in a Bubble" excersizes things at both high and low ends while sounding very well indeed all by itself.

The drums are very crisp, accurate and taut. Very reasonable bass for speakers that look like gasping guppies when driven with a 20Hz sine wave and grills off.

All in all, very comfortable speakers because of their transparency, as in you don't know they are there.

Shortcomings. To my ear, one major and one minor one.

Major first; these speakers are way too bright on the tweeters. Sibilants absolutely hiss; I have to cut treble by -8db for things to sound decent. I'm a mid-50's guy who never wrecked his ears at concerts and can still hear 16-17 kHz tones at reasonable levels. It could be my problem.

I know it's not the amp. I'm a EE and have the equipment to check. Driving the amp with a 100 Hz square wave gives a remarkably accurate output; enough to surmise a flat output past 20kHz. An FFT analysis of a loaded output confirms it as well. So the over-bright treble response rests with the speakers. In my opinion, this needs to be balanced and brought more into line with the rest of the response.

Minor point. Bass needs some assistance. This is very frustrating because only another 5 to 7 Hz of bass extension would satisfy entirely. No point in turning up the bass because the sound gets boomy, sloppy and the drivers look like guppies again trying to cope. I have an SVS 20-39 coming in Tuesday to see if it can be of some assistance.

All in all, I'm very pleased. I auditioned other speakers 3 times the price and more I didn't feel were the equal of what I bought. I didn't buy the Axioms because they cost less; I bought them because they sounded better.

Sorry for the long post.

Mariss

Hey, long posts are cool. Welcome!

Try various recordings; a lot of stuff is mastered hot, and the M60s are (from what I've read) not forgiving. I've heard the M22s, which are supposed to be like miniature M60s, and I've certainly heard what you are talking about. My M50s are a bit more forgiving.

I think the SVS will make you very happy, bass wise. I was running my M50s for about a week without a sub, then realized I was missing stuff... so I turned the sub back on.

Mariss, welcome. Hey, maybe that smell is the "burn-in" that some audiophiles insist has to happen? I'm practically 100% a classical kind of guy, but I did try some hotly recorded pop items from the library a couple of years ago on my M22s when I read some complaints about the b word(bright ist verboten, along with metallic). I sort of saw at times what they were talking about, although it was clearly the fault of the recordings, not the speaker, and I experienced nothing of the sort on well-recorded classical items. One of my receivers has tone controls with variable turnover frequencies selectable and I found that setting the treble maximum cut at 6KHz was the most effective(e.g. 12KHz was another choice available)to make the lousy CDs less objectionable. This tended to confirm some previous reports that it was the upper midrange/lower treble and not the 10KHz+ area that was the problem.

You haven't said if you experienced the problem with more than that one CD, which I'm not familiar with. Some have suggested inserting a resistor before the tweeter to drop its output level uniformly across the entire range, but that's something I'd never do. Equalization on objectionable recordings only would seem to be a better idea.

Stick that 20-39 into the corner and cross to it at 80Hz and you'll certainly have more than enough bass. Enjoy.

See, I am the direct opposite of you. I am 43 and have been to alot of concerts in my life. I think I have trouble hearing the high's sometimes. I turn my Onkyo up to +12. I have the 60's also. I absolutely have a different experience than you. I love the tweeter highs and hear no siblence in these speakers. Turning them back makes my music flat and I listen to alot of different types of music. How is your NAD working with the 60's?? I am interested in either the model you purchased or the 752's. Can you give me any info? By the way, can you really hear 5-7 hz of bass extension? The most I ever turn up my bass settings are +6 and that is on the absolute best recordings.
Thanks....

I think you're post was all and all, a pretty fair review.
I own M60's too, but.... the tweeters, in my opinion....are
fine. In fact, the only adjustment I have made to my a\v reciever was to "up" the treble a bit. I have a pretty good ear, and like the "metallic" sound of cymbals, etc. of the M60'S. [some speaker's tweeters can only make a hiss type sound instead].
I would check the "cd's" sound quality first, when it comes to this, as it makes a HUGE difference in the sound of a system.

Mariss,

I'm my my 50s too, with 60s. Wait......or is it I'm in my 60s with 50s. NO, I've thought about it, and I'm sure I'm it's 50s WITH 60s (I think).

Several things. First, give yourself a little time to become acclimated to the sound of these speakers. You've probably been used to speakers with a very different frequency response.

Secondly, try turning down the volume juuuuust a little. With lesser speakers, I found it necessary to crank the volume to able to satisfactorily hear all the highs, mids, and lows. So, I was inured to listening at that volume. I discovered that, with my 60s, I'm able to listen at a lower volume than that to which I had become accustomed and still be satified with, if not amazed by, the 60s' balanced frequency response. It did take a little time to be comfortable listening at slightly lower volume levels, but my neighbors are very grateful that I did.

Next, never underestimate the effect your room's dimensions and furnishings can have on the response of your speakers. Sometimes moving speakers or furniture just a little one way or the other can cause a substantial difference.

Also, John's point about poorly mixed, or mastered, recordings is a good one. Many recording engineers boost the highs in a recording to compensate for the fact the majority of speakers extant are lacking in that part of the frequency range. Try a variety of CDs and I think you'll see what I mean.

Finally, when the SVS arrives, I don't think you'll experience any lack of bass response. Be sure to secure all knick knacks and other breakable objects. If you have not already done so, pick up a Radio Shack sound pressure level meter, and an Avia or Digital Video Essentials disk (be sure to search the web for the best prices), and calibrate all your speakers. Even if you're just using the 60s and the SVS, you'll want them balanced, and with LFE, you just can't do it accurately by ear.

Post Pictures if you can. We LOVE seeing pictures. Stick around and keep us posted on how it goes.

Mariss,
I had the very same feeling about M60s untill I changed
nothing-wrong-about-16G-HomeDepot-wire with
12G ( not a Monster or likes ) but still a quite good of a quality wire.
Highs are behaving, bass is fuller now.
Oh, forgot, you might need to move to another house :-)
(If your "music space" is as badly suited for SOUND as mine )

Mariss, welcome to the abyss . You are gonna LOVE the 20-39. I also concur with the purchase of bulk 12 or 14 ga from Home Depot. You don't need Monster Price wire.

As far as the sibilance is concerened, I haven't experienced ot with my M60s. Crisp, clear but not bright (of course, I am using my ears and not yours ). If it continues to be an issue after you have taken the time to let your ears acclimate, you might try repositioning the M60s in relation to your center (if you have one). I remeber Alan mentioning something about this in a thread I can't find. Moving the 60s a bit in front of or behind the center solved the problem. Also, give the good folks at Axiom a call - they live to help you with this type of issue.

Mariss- congrats on your new M60's. I just want to comment on the brightness issue you seem to be having. I own a set of M60's as well, and earlier in the year I had to replace both my tweeters due to them dying on me when my former amp decided to blow up.

I received the new tweeters and installed them immediately that night (2 days later thanks to Axiom's incredible customer service) and the first thing I noticed was that the same reference tracks I used to test my system made my ears hurt because they sounded incredibly shrill. I had to stop listening for the night because it wasn't enjoyable at all. One call later to Axiom and I had the tweeter resistors sent to me.

But before I was able to install them, I let the system run at low volume for some time over the next few days. I took another listen to the same tracks the night I was planning on installing them, and already I noticed that the harshness wasn't as bad as it was the first time I played the new tweeters. They seemed to have leveled off nicely. So my suggestion is to give the speakers some time to break in. I'm sure that someone else will chime in here and tell you that the break in period is a fallacy. However, I know that the new tweeters sounded much more harsh than what my system sounded like previously on the same recordings I was playing. But after a few days of use, they were much less harsh sounding and fatiguing to my ears.

With that said, I installed the resistors anyway. I still have them on the tweeters to this day, mostly because with them on, the midrange seems more prominent to me which is quite enjoyable.

Let the speakers play for a few hours a day when you're at work. After a few weeks, sit down and take a critical listen to them to see if you notice a difference or not. You may be surprised. And if you still seem to be having an issue with them, call Axiom and have them send you a set of resistors for the tweeters to see if that maybe helps the problem. Post your results here if you wouldn't mind. I'm interested to see how this turns out for you.

Good luck.

-Kevin

Kevin,

How much did those resistors cost and how hard are they to install? Also, did you feel like you were giving anything up soundwise?