Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Disgruntled Bose Owner Seeks Axiom Setup Advice

Like many others, several years ago I became mesmerized at a Bose store demonstration...how can such little speakers put out so much sound...and ended up purchasing a Lifestyle 25 system and a pair of 901s.

For years, the sound from the speakers never seemed to be as good as when I heard them in the store...I have tried using better cables, and even blamed the poor sound quality on the fact that I was living in small apartments at the time. After doing some internet research, I have come to the conclusion that Bose is just smoke and mirrors...and I am now considering replacing my system with an Axiom setup.

So I am looking for advice. I like all kinds of movies from Science Fiction to Action to Adventure to Comedies, so I want a setup that is flexible in that regard. As far as music, I listen to a lot of heavy metal, progressive rock and classic rock...the problem I have with Bose is that for bands like Metallica and Korn, the drums and guitars become a muddled mess of sound, with the lyrics lost somewhere in the mix.

I want recommendations based on different budgets, so I can determine bang for my buck value. I used the speaker selection wizard on Axion's webpage, but I am curious what other Axiom users would recommend.

As I am using a crappy Yamaha amplifier to drive my 901s, I will most likely be replacing that as well...so recommendations on what I should use to drive my speakers and play my CDs and DVDs would be appreciated...this will ultimately tie into a large screen tv upgrade at some point, but right now I want to go top end on my audio/video/speaker hardware.

On a side note, I am dealing with a room that is approximately 250 ft^2. While I understand that speaker placement and quality plays a huge role in speaker selection, I want a setup that is adaptable to my current space, but is also suitable for when I finally do move from my apartment into a new home.

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and ended up purchasing a Lifestyle 25 system and a pair of 901s.

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A Lifestyle system? Did you buy speakers or condoms?

New lifestyle with resevoir tip... the perfect companion when you unbutton your 901s!

Bren R.

easy on the guy bren, he just got here...

there are hundreds of combos you could go with to make a really bad-a$$ system for yourself. obviously, if budget is a concern, you must start there.

find yourself a price range that is within your means, and go from there.. mixing and matching different speakers is common, so there is no real set way of doing things. i would suggest to get the QS4's or QS8's as surrounds cause thats what they are specifically designed to do. both are great speakers and will work well with any front and center combo. if you are looking for big sound from a small speaker, look at the M22's as fronts. you will need a sub to fill in the bottem end void from these speakers, but a sub is a necessity for any true HT set-up. if you have a bigger space and more money, then move up to the M50's or M60's for fronts. those can just about handle anything you can give them. the VP100 or VP150 are both great centers. once again, depending on budget and room size, i am sure either will get the job done.

as far as the sub, i think if you are looking for the best bang for buck, you can find it elsewhere.. the SVS and HSU brands of subs are slightly cheaper, and are rated slightly better than the axiom subs. they are not available in the same 'custom finishes' that the axioms are, but thats the trade off.. looks or sound?? you choose.

i know this was vague, but its a start. the axiom line are ALL great speakers, and you wont go wrong with picking them. good luck in your research ahead!

bigjohn

I realize you get a lot of newbies with shotgun blast, hey what should I buy questions...I know it also depends alot on personal preference.

Let's say a budget of around $1500 on speakers, give or take a few hundred. That is my budget for speakers alone at this point...although I am also researching CD/DVD player and tuner upgrades as well.

Where do you live? Perhaps you could audition some of Axiom's lineup with one of us. (see the top thread in the Questions and Comments section for a list of who's where with what.

Does that $1500 include a sub? Because it should.

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easy on the guy bren, he just got here...

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Nah, wasn't a potshot at him... I like new guys - the lifeblood of any forum, new questions, new opinions and new points of view.

I was just joking about the naming conventions for Bose speakers.

Didn't mean it to sound like a shot, Starbuck... didn't think it'd be taken that way. Welcome aboard.

Bren R.

nice avatar--battlestar galactica--i used to love that show!

OK.. made a little list here, a good place for you to start within your budget.

M22ti's for mains, $400 or $360 from factory outlet.
VP150 center, $350 or $315 from factory outlet.
QS4's surrounds, $370 or $333 factory outlet.

thats a total of $1120 for new speakers, or get the factory outlets for $1008, saving you around $110 bucks. now, the factory outlets are still great speakers. they have small 'dings' or 'flaws', but sound just the same. in fact, most who have ordered from the factory have never even found the defect it was supposed to have.

and, to finish up the system, get the new SVS PB10-ISD sub. it runs $400, with an additional shipping fee.

so you are getting a GREAT HT and music system, for around $1520 new, or the factory outlets will be around $1410.

plan on spending around $100-$150 bucks on speaker wire and interconnectors, and you will be good to go.. now we need to look at some receivers!!!

bigjohn

Big John, interesting that your setup gave me a very similar layout on speakers as the online wizard did. I kind of figured that the various speaker functions and components (front, center, rear) is kind of a sliding bar in terms of what I can afford and the space I am working with. Of course the whole, bigger must be better logic is kicking in, so I will probably go well over budget to have monstrous floor speakers.

Interesting that you are recommending a sub from a different company as opposed to what Axiom has to offer...any particular reason?

One thing I have never understood is the difference between Receivers and Amplifiers...the thing is I really dont know what to take into consideration in terms of capabilities when looking at a particular tuner...so I guess the obvious question is either what you guys use or recommend.

I also know that not all CD/DVD players are created equal, so what should I be looking at for that component.

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One thing I have never understood is the difference between Receivers and Amplifiers

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Again, there's some leeway in nonclamenture here.

Most simply:
A receiver is what you're used to seeing, it has a radio tuner and switches audio sources at line level, amplifies them and sends them out to the speakers.

An A/V receiver is the same, but it also switches video sources.

An amp simply amplifies the signal, no source switching.

Bren R.

Hi Starbuck,

Welcome. I think bigjohn's got your situation covered pretty well.

I'd encourage you to peruse these forums some; there is quite a bit of collective opinion to be read. I was going to say "collective wisdom" but that phrase somehow enobles the regulars beyond merit

Definitely see if a friendly Axiom owner lives nearby; many folks are amenable to auditions. Make sure you stop by the Beer Thread. Stay away from the Politics thread

You are going to realize a significant improvement over your Bose system with any Axiom setup.

I have a couple of concerns/observations about your situation.

First, you are used to a pretty big, diffuse soundstage from the 901's. While the clarity and precision of Axiom speakers is going to be "better", it might take a while to adjust to the change. Also, I wonder whether an Axiom floorstanding model might more closely match the fullness that you've been listening to. If you opt for a bookshelf model, make sure to budget for stands.

Second, your listening habits give me pause. Axioms are EXTREMELY accurate speakers, and recordings from many hard rock or metal bands are not mastered very well. You may find that Axioms reveal undesirable traits in those recordings. Some forum posters have found that the sound of the M50 is more to their liking than the M22 or M60 (which have similar sonic signatures). Forum regulars kcarlile and 500 are M50 devotees, and may be a useful resources.

Finally, give us more detail about your Yamaha. You may not be as bad off as you think there. The speakers are going to make a huge difference; I'd urge you not to scrimp on speakers unless you don't have any Dolby Digital processing whatsover. Even then, you can find good pieces from HK and Denon in the sub $300 range.

Eh, when it comes down to it, the real reason I'm an M50 devotee is because I really don't want to feel like I bought the wrong thing. They're great speakers, but there's that little bit of me...

Anyway, the M50s are great with hard rock/metal. Lots of bass, but the clarity and soundstage is still there.

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Interesting that you are recommending a sub from a different company as opposed to what Axiom has to offer...any particular reason?

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yes, i think it is a better 'bang for bucks' sub..

axiom makes good subs, real good subs.. SVS makes better subs, and at a little cheaper cost. you could also check into HSU subs.. they have real good ones also, starting around $350-$450..

bigjohn

I was looking at the Epic 50 Home Theater as a possible packaged alternative, as it comes with the M50s that others have said are good for the music I listen to.

The funny thing about my 901s is that for some recordings they are amazing...particularly some remastered classic rock bands like Queen, Yes, Jethro Tull and Rush...for classical music and top 40 stuff, they are suitable as well...yet my leanings towards harder bands like Korn, Faith No More, Type O Negative, etc...they sound terrible. I really have to turn them up way loud to hear the musical nuances, and at that point the neighbors are banging on the walls.

As for movies, the Lifestyle 25...you just lose the voices in the explosions and special effects...so anything that balances things out will be an improvement to my current system.

John just described my system to a 'T', and I couldn't be more pleased. Only difference is I'm using an EP175 sub. I have no complaints with it, but in hindsight I feel it probably would have been a better value (more performance, less cash) to go with an SVS or HSU sub.

If you like the hard stuff like I do, look real hard at the M50's. I also don't mind the 901's. When set-up right there is nothing wrong with them at all.

I agree with John. You need to get out there to someones house to listen to the Axiom line up. Bring beer.

The issue you are having with the 901 is that you have little to no base in them. For the classical high notes they may sound great but once you go with lower, base effect music you loose out on the effect. Same for the Lifestyle 25 (what cheese d**k came up with that marketing machine of a name). Once you get a good center and great sub your eyes will pop out and you will kick yourself for not making this move earlier.

You do need to take a look at your reciever and let us know what you have (model #) and we will steer you in the right direction if it is needed.

Go with the M60's, VP 150, and QS8s. And get a good sub. You'll never look back or have any regrets. You'll also avoid upgradeitis. In general, I know I am glad I have towers up front. I think that having a better low end enhances movie watching significantly.

Not trying to upset the apple cart here, but I think you should by a new receiver first. I too have a Bose speaker system. I’m not advocating Bose by any means, but they don’t sound as bad as some folks try to portray either. I also have Axiom M80’s playing stereo in my second zone with an Outlaw LFM1 sub. So I can reference both worlds here.

Point I’m trying to make is that my Bose speakers woke the hell up when I drove them with my new AVR. I was driving them with a POS 5.1 receiver that claimed 120 watts per channel, DTS Dolby, blah, blah blah……I bought a H/K 7200 and let me tell you, night and day difference. The Bose system can’t hold a candle to my second zone Axiom/Outlaw system, but still, big difference with the new receiver. I’d start there first. Then upgrade your speakers when you get some more pennies saved up.

And as far as your listening tastes go, they are comparable to mine. My M80’s flat out crank and rock the house. There is no muddling or over brightness of anything. AC/DC, VH, Sound Garden, Blink 182, Breaking Benjamin, Pink Floyd, Arosmith, etc, etc…. These babies sound terrific, and as loud as the neighbors will tolerate.

I dunno, let's find out what kind of receiver he has first. This may differ from your experience, but I think speakers are going to make way more of a difference than receiver.

Thats interesting, through my M22's Breaking Benjamin didn't sound to great at all. Aerosmith sounded pretty good.

I mentioned the reciever because he said he had a 'crappy' one. The one I replaced was a two year old Aiwa. I'm not kidding, I still can't believe the difference the HK made over that thing. I'm watching all my DVD's over again as I get time just to 'feel' the difference. I can't even imagine how things would sound with a full aray of Axiom speakers surrounding me....haha.... and for reference, I literally can not stand to play movies louder than 50% for sake of incuring a thresshold shift. I can't play my second zone louder than that and be in house either. A good receiver makes an incredable difference. Definately not one to be ignored.

I'm listening to Ten Years After right now. Sounds great, besides the fact that the CD is about ten years old and has the hiss that you get off older CD's whent the songs are quiet. I have not heard any Axiom speakers other than mine so I can't comment on the M22's. Maybe the M80's just sound different?? I would suspect so. What don't you like about the way BB sounds??

I'm actually having fun. I've got close to four hundred CD's. From mid 70's stuff to the current 'Alternative Rock' country. I'm working my way through it all. I haven't played anything that I thought sounded anything outher than amazing. I popped in Joe Walsh this morning as I'm getting ready for work, sounds as if I've heard him for the first time. Yep, I'm enjoying the sheeiittt out of my new toys.

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Point I’m trying to make is that my Bose speakers woke the hell up when I drove them with my new AVR. I was driving them with a POS 5.1 receiver that claimed 120 watts per channel, DTS Dolby, blah, blah blah……I bought a H/K 7200 and let me tell you, night and day difference. The Bose system can’t hold a candle to my second zone Axiom/Outlaw system, but still, big difference with the new receiver.

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mdrew, I agree that the receiver can make a difference, but to a point. This issue is most likely due to the power, plain and simple.
A friend of mine also bought a Sony HTIB with 4 satellite speakers, centre and self powered sub, all in the 'computer speaker' size range or smaller. The receiver is about three quarters the size of his recently purchased Denon 3802.
When we first swapped the Sony HTIB unit for the Denon, his speakers actually woke up, as you put it. The Sony unit did not have the proper power to beyond its meagre capabilities even with the speakers it was sold with. The volume quit increasing at the 30 mark with 50 being the upper limit on his dial. He would typically turn the Sony up to 45 when he watched movies to get whatever sound of the system that he could but the sound was degraded and on the verge of distorted (not unlike the sound of trying to tune in a radio station that is just off the mark). This is really not surprising at this volume setting on his Sony. Heck, I cannot even fathom turning my Onkyo 797 up to 90 on the 100 scale. I'm sure it would go into clipping. Anyway, this was of course very unsatisfactory performance for his $900 system (he owned it for 2 years!). After sitting through a single movie at our place, he decided, and with his wife's hearty approval, that he would replace his HTIB system and sink his money bit by bit into a more quality setup. He was happy with the Denon powering the Sony speakers for a couple of months but he starting searching for speakers almost immediately. His comparison of his Sony speakers vs. my small Tannoy Revolutions from my office was dismal. Even my wife's Altec computer speakers sounded more full and less tinny. So the search was on. Now he owns the Denon 3802 powering Tannoy Saturn S6s and the S6c centre, the SVS PCi 16-40 and just ordered 4 QS8s, all slowly purchased over 2 years.

The receiver does indeed make a huge difference, but once you hit a point of quality, you don't get much in the way of improvement (sonically) beyond that. There were no audible differences between his Denon and our Onkyo when placed head to head.

I'm going to thread-jack a bit because I have an extremely similar question. I'm one step beyond starbuck in that I already purchased the Epic 50 system but upgraded to QS8's in the rear.

I have this system setup and have so far been slightly disappointed and wanted some advice from the gurus to make sure I'm not doing something wrong. My disappointment stems from a tremendous lack of mid-bass and a virtual disappearance of dialogue during battle sequences in movies. I am really only using this system for an HT.

I am running a Sony STR DE995 receiver:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-tGW2evFDSc8/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?wm=fp&I=158STR995B&g=10420

This receiver has been used to power infinity fronts and b&w rears for quite some time without trouble. I moved to axiom so that I could finally have a matched system. When I watch now though there is just something lacking, I have had to jack up receiver volume to get anything out of these speakers. Is my receiver that horrendous? Any advice would be appreciated and I'm more than happy to give more clarification.

Thanks in advance,

-Sam

Have you calibrated the speakers?

Using a test disk? No. But I have tried a variety of settings per my receiver... All [Large], all [Small], every variation in between. Adjustments to sub frequency etc. I am planning to find a test DVD this weekend so that I can get some test tones out of all of them.

Sam, there are ton of variables here that could be taking away from your enjoyment of your HT system.
To go into detail would be heresy on such a nice (and rare) day here so i'll just list them quickly instead. I'm dying for a brew out on the patio before the sparrows, i mean mosquitos, come out for the evening.

1) different sound from Axiom setup due to reference sound from older Infinity setup? e.g. How long have you had the Axiom setup? Was the Infinity setup typically more bass filled? Are the number of speakers the same? Different types? floorstanding vs. bookhself, 8 ohm vs. 6 ohm, what about speaker efficiencies?

2) different sound varies by dvd and its sound mix (the general lack of missing bass, was this tested with the Infinities side by side with the Axiom setup with the same movie and while calibrated to the same SPL?)

3) possible different sound due to 6 ohm QS8s dragging more power from the receiver compared to the old surrounds, hence a small power issue but would explain your necessity to turn up the volume to get 'more' from the Axioms

These are just a few possibilities but i do believe your Sony receiver should be fine.
You can always head over to a box store, pickup a nice receiver, try it at home (equalize the test to run at the same SPL) and see if it really sounds any different from the Sony. I would not expect alot, not unless that Sony unit was really built with plastic and straw.

I'd be looking at speaker levels, and possibly delay. It's going to be best if you use a Radio Shack sound level meter and one of the usual test disks (Avia, Sound and Vision, etc.)

I'd second what Chess and Ken said. Proper setup/calibration can make all the difference in the world.

You'll also find posts here from owners wondering why their center sounds so quiet, particularly with dialog. The dynamic range on many newer DVDs is such that there's a huge difference between, say, a conversation and an explosion. It can be a little annoying, but many receivers offer a "night mode" where a mild compressor kicks in and evens the volume differences a bit. I'm sure your Sony has something similar. I'd focus on the setup variables first, though.

Thanks guys, luckily a guy at work has a test disk and a sound meter so I'll get to work this weekend and report back what I find. Hopefully I'll have some good results to share.

-Sam

I had some of the same symptoms when my sub was turned up a bit too high (d'oh !!).

If you haven't already tried this, can you try running with the sub powered off and the mains set to "large" ?

I just got done listening to BB and although the album isn't terrible, it isn't very refined especially in direct comparison to Aerosmith's Greatest Hits. The soundstage is big and imaging isn't bad as far as placing instruments, but the drum rolls weren't very crisp, the guitar riffs were just kind of muffled together, and it just isn't as smooth and engaging as Aerosmith is. I'd recommend Trapt and Pepper for two rock bands that kick ass and also sound good through Axioms. They definitely sound better through Axioms than BB.

Thanks player8. I haven't listened to Trapt on the Axioms yet, so I'll give that a whirl tonight. I'm listening to BB Saturate now. It must be our different speakers, cause everything sounds very detailed on the 80's. Track 9, Phase sounds wicked cool when the tight drums start in the beginning. About the only thing that's not really detailed is the cymbals, or maybe too detailed, it's hard to describe. It's just a tad too much. Another good song I like to listen to, is Pink Floyd, Time. I can sit in front of the speakers and crank it (making sure all the doors and windows are shut, haahaha). I love the clocks, and then the roll into the drums.

Later, time to hit the kegerator for a refill.......mike

Ok, so I calibrated all of my speakers, including the sub and things definitley sound better, a lot better. But here is where I still have a concern... To get my system to what I consider a "theater" level of sound, I have my receiver turned up to 70 out of 75(max) when watching 'The Last Samurai' final battle sequence. I can turn it up to max and really not even have it be what I would consider too loud. This is a little disturbing since my old speakers (which were pretty good but not great) would never go above 60 without being ear drum shattering.

So does this mean that I might need an amplifier because these speakers are just too beefy for my receiver? I'm not averse to that, I just would have thought that what I already have was enough to power these. Any thoughts, opinions appreciated!

BTW, part of the earlier problem was definitely a sub that was not properly calibrated and thus I didn't turn the entire stereo up loud enough to get the effect I wanted.

Love the avatar. "But there's an evil monkey in my closet, Dad!"

I really hesitate to say this (don't want to offend!), but you may want to add an outboard amp if the reciever has pre-outs, or replace the receiver. Unfortunately, Sony tends to inflate its specs quite a lot (for example, that 100 watt power rating is probably from a single channel driven, as opposed to all channels driven.) My H/K 525 rated at 70 wpc all channels driven pushes my M50s/QS4s pretty loud. I don't think I generally listen at reference levels, but I'm sure I could put it up to them and be around -10 or -5 (the receiver goes to +15).

Your old speakers were probably very efficient.

I'll start a potential fire here. There are quite a few folks here who maintain that there really shouldn't be that much difference among receivers. I agree with that to a point. Once you get to a certain price/quality level, that's probably true. But I used to have a $300 Sony and upgraded to a $650 Marantz, and the difference was astonishing. The Sony always seemed like it was struggling. On the occasions when my Marantz isn't errupting into a fireball, there's nothing but headroom and pure, clean sound.

It sounds like you're probably pushing the Sony too hard. Why, I don't know. I'm sure someone else will be along shortly with a more coherent explanation/recommendation.

dmn,
I agree completely. There may be nothing sonically very different in the way of sound "quality" between receivers. I'm sure that Sony sounds just like an Onkyo or a Denon when played at 65dB all at the same distance. However, there could be a physical difference in how far the receiver can be pushed, how well its power handling with a certain set of speakers really is beyond the listed specs, and this can make an audible difference.
It is purely power related though.
Let's take that Sony labeled 100w per ch unit, divide it by 5 speakers, plus whatever other power functions the receiver requires....how many watts are really left to power the speakers? The previously posted chart on sustained power output is a perfect example of how there is a difference (huge difference) between a/v receiver brands and within brand models under real world conditions of load!

I would never push a receiver to more than 85% of its max capability. Beyond that you could be risking clipping. If Spooky's receiver can be pushed w/o relative loudness to near max. volume, then yes, i completely agree he needs to consider purchasing an outboard amp or another beefier receiver, especially one aleady noted for its strong power capability (eg. the Denon 28xx, 38xx, etc. series).
There is still that point you reach where nothing will get your speakers any louder though. At that point, you need to buy larger speakers if you want a louder SPL output. For our home system, i cannot get the Axiom M60s beyond 105dB (10 foot distance) without risking potential clipping. This is using a separate amp. Our much larger Tannoys can hit 110. but i have yet pushed their limits
That SPL should be plenty for anyone, but of course some younger lads may like to sit outside on the deck and still hear music at the same level as in the basement. Tsk, tsk.

I agree with everyone else around here... As for ths sub comments, if you're going to try and make it look pretty, you're not the right person for a sub

If you try and hide a SVS PB2+ from your Wife/Girlfriend you're nuts....As for those Axiom subs, they're nice little boxes, work well, look pretty. SVS's subs are very industrail looking, they convey a feeling of power and presence, even before you turn them on.

As for the Axiom's, look at your budget, if you're really new to all these Axiom has a "Home Theater Wizard" on their site to help you design the perfect system based on your room size, listening sizes, etc.

Good Luck!

- D
"I <3 BigJohn"

Well, definitely not the advice I "wanted" to hear, but I don't want to send back a potentially wonderful sound system due to insufficient hardware to power it.

So what I've decided is that I need to upgrade my receiver. Here are the choices that I'm currently considering in my price range...any opinions or additional options are appreciated.

Onkyo TX-NR801 - $750 (high end of my range)
Denon 2805 - $615
Marantz SR7400 - $678

Thanks,
Sam

I suspect the vote for the 2805 will be nearly unanimous. When the time comes to upgrade from my Marantz, I'll probably make the leap to the 2805 or 3805.

If you are interested in HK, Harmon Audio has a seller store on Ebay. They sell refurbed units and there have been some pretty good deals lately. You can also pick up refurbs on the HK website at generally higher prices than ebay.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of those. If it was me I would look at the Denon the longest then the Marantz and then the Onkyo. No real reason for that other then I own a Denon 3805 and I thought it was an improvement over my Onkyo 800. The Marantz I have never had but I have heard a lot of good things. I would also second the idea of taking a peek at HK. Although.......do they still have those dam fans in the back?

i notice you have the onkyo 801 listed.. the only main difference between the onkyo 801 and 701 is that the 801 has the net-card, for direct linking to the computer to play music files from your computer. unless that is a valid option, or something you will ever do, then look at the 701 instead. it is same wattage, same inputs/outputs..

you can find the 701 for around $500 bucks.. i have one, and love it..

bigjohn

I have the Denon 884 similar to the discontinued 1804 and love it. It's powerful and has all the necessary bells and whistles I need (actually alot more than I need). Go with the Denon.

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Well, definitely not the advice I "wanted" to hear, but I don't want to send back a potentially wonderful sound system due to insufficient hardware to power it.

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Sorry Spooky, but i think the general consensus is that you would benefit from a new receiver. Keep the speakers though and give it a test run.
Based on what i've seen with the Denon units, and given the fact it is also the cheapest, i would also recommend the 2805 as a possible replacement.

Nice avatar.

Hey everybody, thanks very much for the advice! After reading several reviews and thinking about the advice given here I am leaning towards the Denon. My lone reservation is that from what I've read it sounds that the Denon is known for great highs, as are the Axiom sound systems. I am just wondering for those of you that have Denon's, can this combination be too rough on the highs?

I like clarity as much as the next guy but I am not solely focused on hearing every pin drop in the movie. I want good solid sound up and down the range and this system will be almost exclusively used for movies. Thoughts, issues, concerns, feelings of general well being?

Thanks guys,

Sam

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I am leaning towards the Denon

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WELL FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dont even take a look at the 701

bigjohn

Hahaha, actually I did look at it. One thing I was concerned about, and perhaps you can clear it up is that the 701 and I "think" the newer 702 are both 6.1 and not 7.1. Ok, I seriously won't even use the rear channels right now, but in the future should I want to I would rather be on the cutting edge now than have (want) to upgrade later on. Is this the case?

Thanks bigjohn,

Sam

yes, that is correct.. the 'older' 701 is only 6.1, not 7.1. i have no desire for rear speaks, so that was not an issue for me. if you think that is something you will want to do at a later date, then the 701 will only allow for 1 rear center channel, as opposed to 2 rears.

just trying to give additional options since this was becoming a denon 'love-fest'.. they both make good receivers, and i am sure you will be pleased with which ever one you get.

and there is nothing wrong with purchasing with the future in mind. if 7.1 might be on your horizon, then prepare now.

bigjohn

Spooky, forget about the subjective reviews of the character sound of receivers. The rumours/reports have very little factual basis and certainly no measurable basis to make such conclusions.
The Denon will perform just fine.
Work on the room acoustics instead.

Bigjohn,
I know i also recommended the Denon, but if it is any consolation, I own an Onkyo!

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Bigjohn,
I know i also recommended the Denon, but if it is any consolation, I own an Onkyo!

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I call foul play!! J/k, thanks for the help guys.

-Sam

Mine does, but I've never heard it turn on.


Um.. I hate the remote! There, now I'm not a total H/K partisan.

Sam, as chess indicated, disregard any nonsense that you may have read about certain brands of receivers having distinct sound characteristics which may not match certain speakers well. All competently-designed receivers/amps have equally "great highs" and matching makes no sense. The Denon is very well-featured and would make an excellent choice.

If the Denon is rough on the highs, I counteract it with my "warm" Sony CDP.

Denon+Axiom= Good.

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Sam, as chess indicated, disregard any nonsense that you may have read about certain brands of receivers having distinct sound characteristics which may not match certain speakers well. All competently-designed receivers/amps have equally "great highs" and matching makes no sense. The Denon is very well-featured and would make an excellent choice.

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Sorry John I'm not clear with this one. Are you saying that all receivers sound the same? Got a graph I can see that shows that? lol :-)

Tweeet! Illegal post; only one equipment fight per week allowed. 5 yard penalty.

lol First penalty of the night.

I just thought that hell if they all sound the same we should all get together and work out a bulk deal with Denon or Onkyo or whoever and buy a bunch. We will get a great price for buying bulk.