Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Denon DRA-685 vs. Harmon Kardon HK 3480

Chesseroo:


hmmm, no arguement over the possibility of marketing hype when they claim the break-in process is necessary, although not absolutely.

Now the fun part about cpu, it's a whole new discussion and it's going to take pages to explain the architecture and nature of microprocessor and it's relation to other electronics. But in the nutshell, burning in a semiconductor devices is nothing but a process that uses a specific type of environment stress on an accelerated basis within design capability, in this case normally a burn-in software is being use, typically 24hr, certain units could be as long as 1 week straight.

The purpose is to detect latent flaws and defects that have a high probability of surfacing as infant mortality failures under field conditions. In doing so, what do you think is going to occur? Electromigration, to a certain degree. I'll try to put it in the simplest way, either you cleared up the restricted metal ions (or pipe lines if you will) and allow more electric current to flow through, or the electrons get congested and eventually will change the flowing pattern.

And what do all these translated to? something was being changed. True, amplifiers are not as complicated as computers, but similar result still happen to the circuit board, chipsets, and many other components within the unit. An amplifier doesn't has as much pipe-lines or circuits as a computer, but electrons that passes through the metal ion surface are much greater and stronger than you could ever imagine, ever get shocked by messing around with a monitor, old tv, or powersupply?? :-) This is not a rule, but simply the law of physics and the nature of electronics, and I strongly believe the changes that took place during or after the electromigration is the main reason why some of those amplifiers or receivers MIGHT sound different after a period of time.

On the other hand, I'm not going to rule out the placebo effect either. I'm sure you've heard countless of people tend to let their equipments run for a week or two and didn't pay much attention to them at first, then they'll proceed and do the "serious" and critical listening afterward. Well, since you didn't pay as much attention to the music in the beginning, of course you are going to notice much more details and soundstage/imaging later on, because you ARE expecting to hear them.

Wid,

Try not to read only between lines, but if you did went through all I've said, then you should know I also mentioned the biggest bottleneck of music reproduction is the speakers, and here is where you get the most out of your money, if I have to put them in order, CD player is right at the bottom of the list. Let me make it a bit more clearer, IMO the differences you hear in speakers is the greatest, then the amplifiers/receivers, and finally the CD Player.

Did you not read I also told Saturn that the cost to performance ratio isn't as great when it comes to CD Player? Did you not read I couldn't hear any differences between the soundcard and the Sony DVD/CD player that I got? notice i said SONY DVD/CD PLAYER. Did I or did I not also laid down my doubt and the possibility of the Sony being crap? and please do me a favor and find me a line where I said there's absolutely no sound difference among ALL CD PLAYER.

Since when did breaking in component has anything to do with the quality of the CD Player...in this case, the Laser lens itself and the decoder chip? If you have any kind of scientific common sense then you should also know electric current cannot change the property of glass, and decoder/encoder can only process so much data that it was designed to.

It seems to me that people often open their mouth, well...in this case, close their eyes and start typing a bunch of misleading accusation to put down other people, this is getting pretty funny....heh. :-)

Wid


by the way, check my previous respond toward chess, then ask yourself this....how much electric current can a $30 walmart and $3K "audiophine" cd player possibly use? eh?

I have went back and re read your posts and in fact what you have stated above is correct I believe I do owe you an apology.So with that I say I am sorry.

I forgot to mention,I see you are into drag racing.The carquest U.S. nationals are here in Joliet this weekend.I have been going to these for the past 4 years.This is the most exciting sport I have ever been to.Its going to be a high of 60 degree's this weekend there should be some record breaking times.I'm sure we can agree on that one.

not hyped up or anything, just trying to avoid unnecessary debates that had already been mentioned that's about it, I'm sorry for all those harsh words that were solely came out of frustration, and I hope I didn't offend anyone, please dont' take it personally though (hopefully Saturn wouldn't either) . ;-)

As for 1/4mi drag, the weather suck a big one down here and we haven't been able to do much racing recently, I just ported the stock heads and swapped the Thunder Racing 224/224 112LSA cam package couple weeks ago, it's running quite lean at the moment, last weekend I heard a little tickling noise while I was letting it ripped, I might of bend a pushrod or two so this coming weekend I'll pull them out and double check, rocker arms might need to be tighten up a little bit, and I'll also need to reprogram the Air/Fuel ratio and fine tune the timing as well.

I still have a set of 40lb injectors laying around that I'll have to swap in very soon, it's a PITA to work on these darn LS1, luckily I don't have to pull out the darn TNT nitrous kit to get all these crap done though....heh.

http://www.geocities.com/ben99z28/tnt/nos.htm

It's a sweet looking ride, but you wouldn't catch me dead in one of those lol...

I like watching it, but I would never do it...

demasoni,

I doubt that the effects of electromigration would be significant in electronics that don't involve such microscopic processes. Electromigration is the wandering of metal atoms into the silicon insulation layers between lines. Given the scale of today's processors, there can be as little as 5 or so atoms thickness dividing those lines. Thus, if the device is operated under extreme temperatures, and those atoms wander, it's possible to create a bridge between lines that should not be bridged, or just cut a line entirely someplace. Also electromigration doesn't ever improve the condition of a cpu. The testing may reveal that a given cpu is capable of handling faster speeds than it was designed to without experiencing electromigration, but in those cases the chip was that way to begin with and it was only revealed through the testing, not a side effect created by the testing.

I'd already gave you the benefits of doubt as I laid out other possibilities. :-) One sure way to find out is to use two brand spanking new and identical receivers or amps. Use one for about a month or so and store away the other, then A/B them side by side couple months later, anybody willing to demonstrate the test? :-)

S/S burn in... what IS the half life of silicon, anyway?

Bren R.

Cool, and I was starting to think I was the only speed freak around here. My passion is making things go fast. Then trying to kill myself driving/riding them....LOL.. Ain't nothing quite like the thrill of running a 9 sec 1/4 and keeping it in a straight line. But maybe landing a 90 foot tripple.