Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater 5 to 7 Channels

I am looking for opinions regarding the relative improvement of 7 channel over 5. I currently have QS4s for my surround channels and am contemplating another pair for the rear. I have about four feet behind my main seating area to the rear wall, while the side wall is about 3.5 feet from the nearest seat. Another factor is that I have a window behind me which will require that all four speakers be used with their custom stands rather than mounted up six feet on the wall. Anyone have experience/opinions regarding the issues raised in this post?

I have posted a few times on this subject but here are my thoughts again in a nutshell. I went 7.1, then 9.1 and the difference with 95% of the material out there was marginal at best and I went back to 5.1 and have not looked back. Most DVD's are 5.1 anyway! EX and other surround formats are not that common to say the least and even when you get lucky and get a true EX disc, the information coming out of those channels is minimal.

If you ask me this is not much more then a marketing tool to convince the buying public that they need yet more speakers, amps etc.

Likewise...I went from 5.1 to 7.1. I added a pair of M2i behind me, bought a second amp to power them, and was completely underwhelmed. The QS8's at the sides are enveloping enought. I went ahead and sold the additional amp, and moved my M2i's upstairs on to my computer. I've enjoyed them there much more.

I enjoy my Denon 2805 in Pro Logic IIx mode that transforms any 2 channel or 5.1 channel into discrete convincing 7.1 sound. Even Dolby EX and DTS ES stuff sound great.

just my 2 cents

It is all a matter of personal opinion. I had a 5.1 system to begin with and then I switched to 6.1. I wasn't too impressed with this setup as the rear speaker was too distracting. I then bought a Denon 3805 and moved to 7.1. I would never go back. While I do agree that the QS8's do a great job, I found the rear sound field was much more natural sounding with the QS4's added to the rear. I do believe a lot of it depends on setup. My listening position is about 4 ft from the back wall and I don't feel the QS8's have enough room behind to really open up. If I had 10' behind me it might be a different story. So before you take anyones opinion as gospel, take a look at your setup to see what will work the best for your individual situation.

Anyone else have 4 QSxes? I'm curious... we always talk about direct radiators for the rear 2 (like Craig had), but often they don't seem to work well. Are the rear quadpolar speaker users happier?

I have tried both and here is what I have generally found. If you have significant room behind the listening position a direct radiating speaker is the way to go as it has enough space to disperse the sound. When you are sitting close to the wall I believe the QS series will be a better way to go as they will provide a more disperse soundstage in a shorter distance and it won't feel like you have a megaphone directly behind your head. JMTC

I have heard that people using SACD and DVD-A's like direct radiating for the most part, and HT based systems enjoy the quad's better. But it is just hearsay.. From my screen to my back wall it is 30', however my rear qs8's are about 20' back from the screen...and I luvem I found with direct radiating if your not in the sweet spot you lose a little of the experience, it is still good, but not as good as enveloping surround sound.

my 2 cents....

"Let me tell ya what Melba Toast is packen....."

I have always heard the same thing. I happen to listen to a lot of hi res music and the QS series suits me fine. I however don't consider myself an audiophile by any means, my wallet might however .

I appreciate the responses. I listen to a lot of music on my system including SACD/DVD-A, and I have been happy with the sound of the QS 4s with music. The sound is a little more diffuse than direct radiators but they still have sufficient specificity for my taste with good timbral accuracy. Has anyone used these surrounds with their dedicated stands? I have my pair on the side walls now but if I go with four surrounds I will need to use the stands due to room issues. They are a little short IMO, so I am curious what other users think about how these stands affect the performance of the speakers for music and movies.

Let me shed my opinion in on this. I think the biggest contributor to all of this is the receiver. Having tried two different receivers myself now, and having a friend who has now owned two different receivers (albeight his 2nd was just the new version of his previous one) I'm convinced that a great deal of it has to do with how the receiver matrixes the movies. Receiver 1 did an excellent job of playing movies in their discrete form, but sucked it up when it came to matrixing so I thought of just going to 5.1 also. But, Receiver 2 is quite the opposite and does such a good job at matrixing that I can see not being with 7.1. It really fills the whole back end of the sound spectrum.

So before blaming it on how many speakers you have, ask yourself how good a job your receiver is doing IT'S job.

Just my personal opinion from personal experience.

could you be so kind as to tell us which 4 receivers these were, and which one did the fabuolous job?

bigjohn

The 4 receivers were the Harman Kardon 630, the Yamaha RX-V1500, the Denon 3803 and the Denon 3805.

The Harman Kardon 630 was my first receiver.
- Great for 5.1, suck up job on matrixing to 7.1
The Yamaha RX-V1500 I've had for a day.
- I can already tell a big difference in the matrixing. Way improved for 7.1. Though I'm still adapting to the sound from the H/K. More on that after I get it fully tweaked.
My friend had/has both the Denon 3803 and 3805 (current).
- The Denon 3803 performed similar to the Yamaha in that it did a great job matrixing to 7.1. I haven't heard his 3805 yet, but he says it's even better than his 3805.

I will probably try out the Denon 3805 myself sometime. Right now I'm spending time with the Yamaha RX-V1500 and I'll post perhaps in a couple weeks how I think they compare.

Right now, Day 1, the Yamaha has much better matrixing, but the Harman Kardon has a better, richer sound.

I guess I'm on a quest for the Holy Grail

In reply to:

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So before blaming it on how many speakers you have, ask yourself how good a job your receiver is doing IT'S job.

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I ran 7.1 with an Yamaha RX-V1, Yamaha RX-Z9, Onkyo 800 and a few others. I now run a Denon 3805 as a pre only and 7.1 is still a joke.............just like it was with EVERY receiver I have had. Not bad for music but very little going on when it came to HT. I even tried 9.1 with the RX-Z9 and it was average at best with HT but not so bad with music.

At the end of the day however, I could not justify the cost in speakers etc for so little gain. I get the same results with a good 5.1 set-up everytime.

Well, perhaps it's a case of different strokes for different folks. A factor, also, is how far apart each speaker is, and how far you are from each speaker. If they're all bunched together every two feet, and you're only a couple-few feet away, then yes, it's probably overkill.
I'm about 7+ feet from each surround speaker, and each speaker is roughly 6 feet apart from each other, so to me that creats enough space for a wide soundscape. Otherwise my two surround speakers (albeight QS8s are great) are 15 feet apart from each other. And they do a good job, I'd go so far as to say most of the job. But there are times where there's a sound RIGHT behind you that speakers 7 feet to the left or right can't duplicate.

My 2 cents is, I can justify the spending of two more speakers. First, you'd never get to play 6.1 discrete movies. Some may say that's overkill. That's fine. 5.1 is really great, but I like 7.1 better. It really comes down to a matter of opinion.

The bottom line is, NeverHappy, is that I might have agreed with you, up until a week ago. Most movies ARE in 5.1. Though some are in 6.1 and 5.1 EX/ES movies are made more for 6.1 and 7.1 systems. This sort of kept me on. But again. 5.1 was generally enough. Until I played Master and Commander in 7.1, chapter 4. I heard sounds fill the room like I hadn't heard before.

Most people who already have a newer 5.1 speaker setup probably have a receiver that'll at least do 6.1 or 7.1. So, to all you out there on 5.1 and are curious...go find a friend, or look in your garage or basement for an extra speaker or two that you have or can borrow and test it out for yourself. It's free. Granted, if they aren't a high quality speaker it won't sound the same as if you have an Axiom back there. But it's just for fun anyway.

But I will go on the record as say, "Yes, 7.1 is a negligable difference over 5.1."

But I did it because I could, because I wanted to, because I thought it'd be fun, and I thought it made a difference.

I'm sure the 5.1 vs 7.1 debate will go down in home theater history up there with good vs bad speaker wire, powerconditioners changing your sound and picture, and speaker break in...

To each his own. Enjoy the sounds!

Nah, the 7.1/5.1 debate is much more civilized!I'd love to do 7.1, but the house just isn't built for it. Nor is my budget... Although 6.1 with a QS4 and a hell of a lot of flat speaker wire might work...


Since my Qs are mounted so far forward, I think I would probably benefit from such a setup.