Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler OT: Best way to convert CD's to mp3?

OK...I've finally gotten the storage space I needed at home to begin ripping my cd collection. Problem is I haven't a clue how to rip a cd to mp3.

I'm VERY sheepish about giving up my cd collection, so I want to rip them at the best possible quality, space be damned. If I can hear a difference between my original cd, and my ripped mp3, then I'll be keeping the cds.

So...where do I start?

fyi...

I'm running a WinXP on an Intel P4 (2.4). They'll be stored on a Western Digital 200gb SATA drive (internal). The plan is to play them back through my Tivo downstairs which is "hooked up" wireless to the PC.

Hope that helps.

Apple itunes - it's free, flexible and it works! I use 320kbps bit rate and am very satisfied with the results.

Another free app is Musicmatch. The key is to use a high bitrate to preserve the sound quality. Many would argue for you to look into "lossless" ripping. I personally didn't want to eat up that much space. However, there are many that are adament that you can tell the difference in audio quality.

Good luck. It's a long process.

FYI...I think that Winamp does ripping, as well. In fact, I think that the newest Windows Media Player supports mp3 ripping. You may want to look around ZDNet to see what the most popular programs are right now for ripping.

Hi Craig,

Good luck. Please let us know how it goes. I'm currently monitoring both your progress and Ray's pleas for a megachanger with keen interest.

Somebody posted this Guide for Encoding CD's some time ago. I think it's a pretty good start.

There was also this thread where we tried to get help before. It rambles as usual, but I think it's still topical.

btw, I've used Musicmatch to rip LOTS of stuff at 128 (before I knew better). I am NOT satisfied with the results. So, I get to start all over.

You first.

- Tom

CDex to rip MP3's at 256b/s. Anything that uses the LAME encoder.

I am satisfied. spiff....drop by for a listen and a look at the software.

My pre/pro decodes the PCM from the MP3's and CD's....you will be hard pressed hear the difference. Remember, it is not only what is doing the ripping, but it is also the equipment that is playing it back.

I second Itunes, it is simply the best program available for organizing music. And ripping CDs is extremely easy.

iTunes is a great music organizer, and ripping music is easy, but I do not think it is the best quality ripper.

I've heard the same. But it IS the best program I've used for organizing and playing back your music. You can have the best of both worlds by using a LAME-capable ripper and them importing your tracks in to iTunes.

that's what I do!

And let me add that the Airport Express is great to wireless stream from your PC/Mac to your audio system....even offers digital out so you can use the higher quality DACs in your system. I think I have posted it three times today....the sound is outstanding!

sick of me posting that yet?

I use Cdex. I rip my cds at 224kpbs, 320 would be better but it just takes up more space and 224 is pretty decent. 192 and lower is too low.

I can rip a whole cd in about 2-3 mins so it shouldnt take you too long depending on your computer.

Winamp is the best for playing them too. I like version 2.80

Just started rippin'...

Using CDex directly from CD to mp3.

Here's how I configured CDex...let me know if I should change anything...

On the encoder tab...

Thread Priority "Normal"
Encoder "Lame MP3 Encoder (version 1.30, engine 3.92 MMX)
Encoder Options
Version - MPEG I
Bitrate Min - 320kbs
Mode - Stereo
Quality - Very High Quality (q=0)
"On-the-fly MP3 Encoding" is checked
VBR Method - Disabled
Output Samplerate - 44100

Sound right? It's all pretty much Greek to me.

So far so good...the only thing disapointing is the time it takes to rip. It's averaging about 10-15 minutes per disc or about 25% of the disc's real time.

I have always used Music Match. I've been using it for years and find it to be very good.

Shag

Spiff,

Part of the reason for the long rip-times is the high bitrate you appear to be using. You may want to sample the different bitrates to see where your sweet-spot is. You may find that you might not hear a difference at a lower bitrate. It all depends where your comfort zone is.

On my old computer it took me about 15 mins per cd, my settings are the same on both computers so im not sure what contributes to the faster ripping. But i am looking at my settings and i have quality set to normal. I think the mp3's im getting are good quality.

I've tried other programs, but I prefer EAC (Exact Audio Copy) for ripping CD's. It's got tons of options, but it also has a "wizard" which can make the setup painless.

I have tried 320 and 128 settings on MP3s for taking with me (on a Sony PDA) and no matter which headphones I use they sound about the same.

Is there no point in ripping at 320 if you are going to try to squeeze the tunes through sub $100 headphones?

I am using Sony MDR-EX51LP Fontopia Headphones and Sennheiser PX100s - both supposedly pretty good for under $100 headphones. I can't see spending $200 or more on headphones that go outside and may get busted.

I like the fantopias better because they block out outside noise and they are smaller, but the Sennheisers are probably better inside.

edit--
Headphones may be the bottleneck of maybe it is my ears. I should compare them on my home system, duh!

Hi Don,

I think Craig's concern (which I share) is optimizing quality so that you can use ripped-to-MP3 audio as a primary source in the home listening environment also.

I'd agree with your assessment, though. For mobile use (in the car, or through headphones), I was not disappointed by the 128 bitrate. I have decent Sony noise-canceling headphones, and a pair of older (but expensive when I bought them) Koss also. Those tracks also sound fine through my Cambridge computer speakers. However, when I listen to them through the main M60 system, I am not satisfied.

I like Musicmatch fine, and am open to the other software alternatives suggested. My strategic direction now is that, if I am going to spend the time to rip and re-rip a large part of my CD collection, I want the resulting files to provide multimedia service for all of my listening devices.

I would be very interested to hear if your impressions of the 128 files are similar to mine. Maybe it's just me.

Also remember the quality of playback also has A LOT to do with the device decoding the PCM stream.

You can rip a high quality MP3 and it will sound like doodoo if you play it back on a cheap device with cheap DAC's....it will sound bad. Play it back on a good device with good DAC's and it will sound great.

I use the DAC's on my pre/pro.....sounds great!

Excellent point, Curtis. Thank you very much for helping me keep an eye on ALL of the links in the chain.

I understand the talk was about MP3s to replace hanging on to cds - or at least to having to get them out to play them. I was just trying to piggyback on this question with my current question.

So, does an IPOD or a iriver sound any better than a two year old Clie? I would guess they all have small and not great sounding DACs, right?

Thanks for the response. I thought it might just be my ears. But - no - my system with M22s sounds great (on great cds). Just got two of the new Lindsay Quartet Beethoven cds - recorded at 24 bit 176 khz sampling rate. WOW!

I think the iPod with good headphones sounds great. I have not tried it with my audio system.

I can tell you that MP3's....ripped at 256b/s and then burned onto a DVD or CD sound very good on your Pioneer 563a...I have done that. A DVD holds A LOT of MP3's.

Okay, now my interest in ripping & storing my CD collection on a hard drive has been piqued. Can someone explain a wireless method of sending audio from my computer to my receiver? I don't have the money for something like a Yamaha MCX1000, and an iPod just seems silly.

Craig said he's using his Tivo, but I can't imagine ever wanting to use one. So I'm thinking there has to be some other alternative. I could build a dedicated computer for about $500 and put it with the rest of the stereo equipment, but the fan noise would drive me crazy and it just seems wasteful. I'm very attached to the idea of having a screen-based GUI (MusicMatch, iTunes, WinAmp, whatever...) to access & manipulate playlists. Any ideas?

I think this is what you're looking for.

VERY cool!!! Thanks!

I'm kind of gravitating towards the Prismiq media player.

Theoretically, of course.

I like the idea of having control of the lists from the listening room, and also being able to stream video content. I REALLY like the idea of the web browser, but I understand that this one gets mixed reviews. I wish it was cheaper.

Likewise, the computer I would use as the server is connected via ethernet cable to a wireless router, but does not have a wireless card resident in it. It seems like that is a problem with the Airport for me. Does that Apple product give you on-screen control of the playlist? Does anybody have better ideas for similar products?

Tom....as long as you have a wireless router, you can use the Airport Express. Works great with my old Linksys wireless router.

The Airport Express does not use the TV's screen. There is a third party wireless remote available, but I do not know how well it works.

I don't find myself going to the PC often to change songs. I just set it to a playlist and let it go.

I have also looked at the Prismiq, and think it is a great alternative. I almost went that route...and still might down the road.

By god, Curtis, you're going to convert me yet if you keep being so helpful. You don't suppose I'd spontaneously combust or turn to stone or anything if I actually bought an Apple product, do you?

So, to recap, you use CDex (or EAC) and the LAME engine to rip at 256, and then use iTunes to manage and stream the content through the Airport Express. And life is good.

Yes?

I am a PC person and bought the Apple product....but I also like Apple stuff because they took a lot from Xerox....and I worked there for 10 years.

Yup....you got it right...that's what I do.

One caveat, that I expeienced once, was interference from my 2.4ghz phone.

BTW...there are Prismiqs on eBay. I would love to try one of those things.

I should add, the gist of all of this for me is to make enjoying music easier. The Prismiq adds other functionality that I think would be interesting.

A CD changer/jukebox is good....but does not have the capabilities or convenience of MP3 manager on a PC or Mac. Done the right way, the sound difference is extremely slim....if any at all.

In reply to:

---

You don't suppose I'd spontaneously combust or turn to stone or anything if I actually bought an Apple product, do you?

---

I've had the same concern for myself. When I saw Craig's solution was an Apple product, I instinctively flinched. You people are probably going to think I was dropped on my head repeatedly as a child, but my experience has been that Apple stuff in general and iTunes specifically are about the least user-friendly products available. There's absolutely nothing that's intuitive about the layout or operation of iTunes, and if this PRISMIQ doohickey is viable alternative then I might have to explore that option.

If you grew up in the PC/Microsoft world, the Apple stuff does take some time to learn...and vice versa.

For me...compared to WinAmp or MusicMatch, iTunes is much easier and more capable. My experience with MP3 managers is limited, but I can't see it getting much easier.

There are other alternatives as well.

http://www.rokulabs.com/products/soundbridge/index.php
http://www.slimdevices.com/

Tom, I feel I know you well enough to tell you that you are really a Mac person trapped in a Windows body. Spoken in beer terms, Apple is to PC as microbrew is to macrobrew.

Oooooooooooooo....Soundbridge....pretty lights....!!!

In all seriousness, the Roku Soundbridge looks pretty appealing. I use CDex to rip, but I like MusicMatch for cataloging and playback. Support for MM is a big plus for me.

Thanks for the tips!

Peter, while your Townsendesque personal observation may or may not be true, I am unconvinced that the qualitative analogy is apt. I've got an open mind, I just can't afford the support on two different platforms.

Understood. I forget that most people don't fix/support computers for a living and actually need to pay someone to do it occasionally.

Am I the only guy that's going to be using the tivo?

I gotta take a look at the back panel of my tivo tonight.

the standalone TiVo's do not have digital out.

crap.

I hope someone will correct me if I have misunderstood, but I believe that DirecTivo (which is what I have) does not perform any of the Tivo Home Media functionality. Pity.

So, Curtis and Craig, please help me understand - the reason why the Tivo solution is crapworthy is that you do not wish to rely upon the presumably suboptimal DAC's in the Tivo box?

I can't say that the Tivo is crappy...but given the choice, I'd rather my Rotel handle those chores...wouldn't you?

Sure! Hey, you're the one who uttered the fecal reference first, I was just looking for clarification.

I wish I DID have that option; I'll need to spend ~$200 to get similar functionality, and I'll bet that the Tivo GUI is better.

The Tivo is nearly a perfect solution. All it needs is a dang digital output!

Tom...you are right. DirecTiVo, although capable of all the things that the standalone TiVo can do, has not been blessed with that software. It seems that DirecTV does not want the headache of support.

Damn clueless users, robbing me of software!

That what I think too....but I can see how painful support would be for DirecTV.

DirectTiVo with the ability to stream and all those other Home Media options.....that would be a very sweet box.

hmm...with no digital output on a Series2 Tivo, does that mean there's no way to hear anything you've recorded played back in DD 5.1? That seems rather dumb.

Yup...you got it! It is an analog receiver.

Why do you think I was trying to push you towards DirecTV?

Also.....what other SD cable or OTA tuner will give DD5.1 output?

The standalone "standard" TiVo boxes don't support 5.1.

I've been as big a fan of TiVo as you'll ever find. I really DO think that it was the one piece of equipment that I would not want to live without and I recommended it to many friends and family members over the years. It really, truly and completely changes the way you watch TV, and it makes you wish other things in life had TiVo. Others who have TiVo will probably confirm that they have, at one time or another, wanted to "click back" to something they misssed while listening to the radio or watching TV at a "non TiVo owning" friend's house.

Just a week ago, though, I gave up my TiVo for the two-tuner High-Def DVR cable box that Comcast offers. It doesn't have many of the user-friendly features that I miss on my TiVo, such as allowing keyword searches or automatically recording things that it knows I like but didn't actually program in.... but it DOES have two tuners, high-def, 5.1 sound and the general function of a hard-drive based system.

I'm very sorry to say, TiVo is missing the boat. They should have had a high-def, 5.1 capable box out six months or a year ago. Maybe their delays are because they are about to introduce something incredible, or maybe there's too much competition when the cable and satellite companies build the required decoder boxes with DVRs built in... I dunno.... but I know I couldn't wait anymore for high-Def now that I had the DLP....

I know it sounds strange, but after three or four years of using TiVo it's like turning your back on an old friend... but the reality is that, for whatever reason, they've fallen behind...

i find myself wishing i could tivo ( or would it be radi-o oh wait its already called that maybe radio-o oh whatever)radio broadcasts i listen to a lot of sports talk radio and wish i could pause interviews or good converstions while i run in the bank, store etc.

Mark...there is a HiDef two tuner TiVo......but it is only for DirecTV. It actually has FOUR tuners.....two satellite and two OTA...but only two things can be recorded at one time though......and it does DD5.1.

Dang Curtis...do you sell Tivo's? You're a wealth of Tivo info!

And costs $1000. Not bad, really, for all that functionality. No matter what people tend to say about it, it's a 4 HiDef tuner AND a DVR, for heaven's sake!

LOL!! I have been using a TiVo for four years....and used to follow the technology closely.

There are more and more DVRs coming onto the market, but none of them is able to match the TiVo software for ease of use and functionality...IMO.

I haven't tried anything else, but I'm so happy with the TiVo, I don't really feel any need to. Well, that and I have a box with a lifetime subscription!

Yes...I struggle with that $1000 cost of the HD DirecTiVo.

When I finally go HD....I do not know what I am going to do. The service I like right now is Voom...but currently they do not have a DVR, one is in the works...and I do not think they licensed TiVo.

I think I can give up TiVo for another DVR....but I do not think I can give up the dual tuner features.

When I go HDTV, I'm certain of one of two things:
1) TiVo will offer a standalone unit for HDTV
2) TiVo will be out of business.

It's one or the other, since I'm waiting until they force me to go HDTV (and get all the standards ironed out.)

Or until my TV mysteriously dies.

See, that's the thing Ken.

I agree that the TiVo is by far the best implementation of the idea...without a doubt.

But once I got that big Samsung sitting there, and I found out that I could have hi-def in an hour from my cable company by simply switching my box on my own AND at only $15/month TOTAL with that DVR box... it was a no-brainer.

I checked out the satellite services, but none had good alternatives to local hi-def channels. (Concord is in a little bit of a valley and getting any of the Boston stations via antenna is extremely unlikely and unreliable... leaving us with one affiliate only. Voom would be my choice if I could get my local channels on my own).

Anyway, as I've said... I can't say enough good about TiVo, but when you have a choice of it or, for almost the same money, having hi-def, 5.1, and a two-tuner DVR with MOST of the functions....!

I miss TiVo's WishList looking out for Hitchcock films.... but I miss it less while watching hi-def!

And Curtis: What I really wish is that the companies that are providing these other VTRs licensed the TiVo service for them, such as the box you're talking about. Then, I could watch Hitchcock in hidef!

So you've been assimilated w/ Tivo? Sounds like you have a stand alone supporting HMO. I was I had HMO on my HD Tivo...

Just to catch up, digital out is ONLY available on the HD Tivo box which I have. Yes, it does DD5.1. HOWEVER, the HMO is not currently supported on any of the DirecTivo combo boxes, SD or HD. Rumors are that it will, but who knows when...

Spiff, question for you and other Axioms owners. So we spent this money to get Axioms and listen to them on our great CD players and high quality cables. Now we start using MP3s. [Mind you, I won't complain, because I just bought myself a 20 GB iPod...] How big of a sound difference do you notice w/ well ripped MP3's vs. CD's? I know that when I listen to the DirecTV music channels, I can tell a bit of difference vs CDs, even compared to my mid-quality CD's. Curious, if people think the MP3's sound the same, better or worse.

I've not yet given the CD vs MP3 a serious listening. I've been so dang busy the last week or so. Eventually I'll sit down and do some serious comparisons between the cd and mp3's. I'll of course post my thoughts when I'm done.

oldskool...

I can tell you with my setup using the AirportExpress, digitally connected to my pre/pro, MP3's created with CDex at 256b/s, the difference in quality is very little if any.

I need to have some of you over to experience for yourselves....so I can stop repeating myself.

Yeah...but you only have Ascends....



Just kidding! Your setup sounds sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.

hehehehe....

I really wish my amp had more than one optical input. My Airport Express is connected analogically into my Video 3 input.

What's taking up your optical?

TiVo

Aaaah. Haven't really looked at the back of a DirecTiVo.

Yeah...rub salt in the wound.

***mutter...mutter...stupid direct tivo...mutter, mutter...digital output...mutter, mutter***

Hey, we're in the same boat, man.

Good point w/ the bit rate. Most of my MP3's are from the old Napster days. The ID3 tags are not really correct, so w/ iTunes it doesn't sort well. I've spent the last 2 days (and going) updating the tags so everything will be kosher. Most of those files are 192 kbps or less. I've been using Musicmatch (free one) and don't think I can do 256 kbps.

But w/ iTunes, looks like I can do a higher rate. But then I'll need a bigger hard drive...

Eh, hard drives are cheap! I picked up a 160 gigger on Black Friday for $40! (after rebate yadda yadda yadda).

oldskool....don't use iTunes to rip....use something that utilizes the "LAME" enocoder. I use CDex.

What advantage does LAME provide?

All the different encoders out there don't use the same compression algorithms. The reason to choose LAME is that most people agree that it produces higher-quality MP3s than other encoders.

Plus you get to sound like a 1337 geek and an audiophile all at the same time!

Cool enough, I'll give it a try. OK, what does 1337 mean?

1337 is sort of a self referential term. It pretty much grew out of the AOL, uh, culture of chatting, etc, as far as I know. 1337 translates to "leet" which translates to elite. In some circles (12 year old wanna be hackers), it is a term of praise. In others (real geeks) it is a term of ridicule. Leet-speak is typing using funny characters, 43nc3. I obviously don't know much of it. You often see it used in online first person shooter games, as in "1 0wn2orD y3r @$$ 1u23R!"

I'm sure someone else could speak to this in a more educated fashion.

Curtis (and anyone else!)

Wondering why CDex and not EAC? Any particular reasons? I'm new to this as well, and it looks like CDex development hasn't continued. So other programs are incorporating updates to LAME, but not CDex.

Thanks!

Rich

Oh...it is only because that is what I started using first....no other reason.

I am contemplating the move to EAC.

Question for all you mp3 rippers. We're running into errors on the last track of MANY discs. Is this common? Everything seems to be ripping fine, and then as it gets to the last disc (or sometimes the last few) the jitter errors start piling up.

What's the deal?

anybody?

The only discs I have any trouble with are old scratched discs and sometimes copys.

I have only run into problems on a few discs, and usually the second time around it is OK.

Maybe there is something wrong with the CD drive?

Hmm...perhaps, but it happens with both my and roger's computer. The tail end of discs very often give me errors. I've found that if I play the tracks that are giving me trouble with winamp, then try burning them, it's usually ok. But it's REALLY slowing down this ripping process. We're only about 1/2 done ripping our collection.

1337 is sort of a self referential term. It pretty much grew out of the AOL, uh, culture of chatting, etc, as far as I know. 1337 translates to "leet" which translates to elite. In some circles (12 year old wanna be hackers), it is a term of praise. In others (real geeks) it is a term of ridicule. Leet-speak is typing using funny characters, 43nc3. I obviously don't know much of it. You often see it used in online first person shooter games, as in "1 0wn2orD y3r @$$ 1u23R!"

I'm sure someone else could speak to this in a more educated fashion.

Ok this isn't fully true... I haven't written in "l337" (or l33t) in ages... and it isn't a term of praise or "OH MY GOD YOU'RE AMAZING", but it's not a term of ridicule either... To me and my friends that use it, it's basically just "cool", or "that's l337", etc. To each their own.

As for CD - MP3.

Cdex, Cdex, Cdex. It's a geeky program, with a geek interface... It was updated recently, but man, it's meant for geeks, and any good geek can update lame drivers now and then

- D