Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater The PS12-ISB is here....well almost

As I would expect, UPS came to my house today with the sub and nobody was home. I contacted them and the driver will be returning to the center at around 6:45 tonight. Road Trip!!!!

If all goes well, I'll be shaking the house around 9:30 tonight. It's been about one year since I got the Axioms setup (and yes they are still great), I guess I can wait a little longer to finally complete the 5.1 system.

John - that's pathetic. You 're an adult. Thank God I never chased around to UPS like that to pick up HT stuff!!! And FedEx. And DHL. Well, OK - but only three times. Six. All right dammit -8 times!

Let us know how it works. Wear a cup. .

My first impression.....that is one big sub!!!! Having the base plate (and not spikes) made it easy to slide it into the front corner and position it.

I couldn't wait to hear them, so I skipped the calibration step and went right to the listening step. I set the sub's output to about 1/3, set the front speakers to small and loaded U-571 into the DVD player......WOW!!!

My daughter could feel it in her room, upstairs, on the other side of the house. I never owned a sub before so I was surprised when the floor shook during the depth charge scene.

I am sure I will have many questions specifically around choosing large vs small fronts. Is there that much of a difference in 5.1? If I set them to small and play a CD in 2 CH stereo, do I lose some bass?

Time to calibrate...

Thats awesome John have fun and wear protection.

*slides into the room*

Alright you, listen and listen good, because I'm only going to say this once (because I don't want to type it out more):

TIPS FOR SETTING UP AN SVS:

1. Unpack it
2. Stick it where you want it (hopefully some thought has gone into this)
3. Plug it all in
4. Turn it on uncalibrated, cry. Well I dunno about you, but when I turned my PB2-Plus (PB12-Plus/2) on, I actually hurt my kidney
5. Calibrate, I have a Denon 3805, so I set the volume to 1/3 and just ran Auto Setup and was done (trust me, it's MUCH better)
6. Test out various source ouputs (Stereo, DD, DTS, etc) to see where you like it. My receiver calibrated the sub at +2.5 DB for everything by default. That setting is fine for 5ch stereo, and 2ch stereo, but for DD it's WAY to much, so it's -7.0 DB for that
7. Set the rest of your speakers to small, unless they're big full range speakers (which they aren't, because you said you have Axiom's). No you won't loose any bass, trust me, the SVS will fill it all in
8. Set your Crossover Frequency to 80hz.
9. Sit back,and enjoy
10. Oh crap, I forgot this... When setting up your SVS, *DO* email them and ask for suggestions. I.E. just because it comes with two port plugs in, doesn't mean you need it. I have one in, and Subsonic Filter at 25hz setting, so asking is always nice. Sure they give defaults in the manual, just don't use it stock like that, not good for it.

If you have any more questions, give a shout! Hope this helps and enjoy your new sub!

-D

Jon,

Congrats - sounds just like my first impression to my SVS sub! Conventional direction is to set all speakers to small. Look at the manual that came with the sub and you receiever manual. If still confused, call SVS.

Also, I'm not sure how low this thing goes, but if there is flexibility, try to tune it tdown to 20hz. There is quite a bit that goes on between 20-25. Enjoy.

It goes quite low, there's a frequency chart on SVS's site, have a look at that.

As for tuning, don't just guess. I.e. that subsonic switch shouldn't be played with absentmindedly. Example 20 hz has one port plugged, 25 hz is all ports open, etc....

I have mine at 20Hz, with one port plug in. It does make quite a difference when it's setup right.

- D

OK, let me start out by saying "I am a sub idiot!" I am so GD confused. I thought setting up the other 5 speakers, AVR, etc was a pain.

My problem is I truly don't understand the world of subs (except the kind you eat).

Here is what I have done so far:

1) I ran the Denon test tones and then the Sound & Vision DVD to calibrate the speakers. The SPL gave me different readings from when I did this when I got the Axioms. Also, the readings between the Denon and the DVD were not all the same. I would have expected both tone sources to tell me about the same thing.

2) I ran the Sound&Vision DVD to calibrate the sub. The subs settings before I ran the DVD were:

Crossover- disabled
Volume/Gain - about 1/3
Phase - 0

The sub calibration, I believe compared the left front to the sub. The SPL reading of the sub was about 4 dB higher, although the sub sounded like it was less than the left front. The DVD said that was normal. Well than how the hell do I set it? Is is personal preference?

The sub phase is the next issue. My wife and I switched back and forth changing the phase between 0 and 180. Honestly, I couldn't tell the difference.

The crossover setting wasn't any better. The description on the DVD was confusing at best. I wound up listening
and saying OK.

3) I did this for DD, can you do it for 2 CH stereo, 5 CH stereo? I don't think the Denon gives test tones for these. Should these settings be the same as the DD settings?

HELP!!!!!

I just read Daphoid's earlier response. Thanks. I still want to understand why I am doing these things.

To me the setup of a sub seems very subjective.

Take a deep breath grasshopper. This gets simple quickly. Hopefully, you have the sub in an internal corner of the room. You didn't really mention what or if the problem is, so let's try this.

Look at the SVS and receiver manuals again. You should have one cable plugged into the proper spot on the back of the receiver. Having the crossover disabled on the SVS is correct - you will manage that from your receiver.

In the receiver menu, set your speakers to small. Enable the sub and set the crossover to 80. The receiver manual will likely have a bit more detail if there are choices to make in the setings. Based on your questuions, it sounds like you need to spend a bit more time with your receiver manual. Calibrating the speakers isn't a "2CH stereo / 5CH stereo" issue - you are trying to have them move the same amount of air pressure so the audio is balanced. Then they play everything in a balanced/blended mode.

Now, forget the Denon test tones - just use the ones on the DVD. You want to have a consistent base line and one set of test tones is all you need.

Next calibrate ALL of the speakers and the sub in the same session using the tones from the DVD. All you are trying to do is to get everything to give you the same reading on your SPL meter. You may want to turn the sub up just a touch and then start the whole process to calibrate.

I never did understand the phase control. [smjle] As you said, it never seemed to do anything. Hopefully someone will chime in on this piece. Oh - and don't worry about your wife and the phase knob. My wife has been out of phase for our entire marriage.

Ray, the sub is in an internal corner, where SVS and HSU recommended. It's not so much that I have a problem (that's my opinion anyway), it's more that I was not comfortable that I did the calibration right.

I looked at the Denon manual again, and I when I choose small for the fronts, it sets the crossover at 80. There doesn't seem to be any additional options for crossover.

I will re-do the calibration using the DVD.

Regarding the 2CH/5CH/DD question......

When I calilbrate in DD, I wind up with 6 settings for the speakers and the sub. If I then play a CD in 2CH, the left,right and sub are set at 0 dB on the receiver. When I play a CD in 5CH, all the speakers are set at 0 dB on the receiver. Why, because I never calibrated in that mode and the DVD does not allow me to. Therefore, do I just take the DD settings and adjust the 2CH and 5CH settings accordingly??

Thanks, you da man!!!

As far as the phase goes, sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes it doesn't depending upon the room and the relationship of the subs' position to any other speakers that produce bass.

The jist is that you don't want one cone pushing while another is pulling....cancelling out the wave to some degree. You have to be in the primary seating position while someone else flips the switch to see if it's making a difference (louder bass is the correct position).

Ah you're doing it manually!

See I have the Denon Mic... You plug it in, click "Auto Setup" and it cycles through all your speakers + sub and calculates distance, levels, phase, everything, automagically..

After that, works like a charm

- D

In reply to:

---

Why, because I never calibrated in that mode and the DVD does not allow me to. Therefore, do I just take the DD settings and adjust the 2CH and 5CH settings accordingly??

---

Apparently your receiver has separate speaker level memories for each input and possibly each input mode.

That's good but it raises the issue you stated. You have several options:

(1) Just copy over the speaker levels as you mentioned.

(2) If your receiver permits, manually switch to 2-CH mode when playing your Digital Dolby 5.1 calibration DVD. Set levels in 2CH mode and hopefully they'll stick.

(3) Use the receiver's test tones not the DVD. That may set levels for all inputs. That's less ideal since it doesn't calibrate the entire signal path.

(4) Get a separate 2-CH CD calibration disc.

If you have SACD, you'll need a separate SACD calibration disc.

I've got to defer to joema here. First because he's always dead nuts on with his answers, but also because I have no technical basis to be able to answer your last question.

I set the 2CH and 5CH levels to the DD settings. For the sub, I set it at +2dB for both. Why? Beats the hell out of me!!!

I guess my frustration lies in the fact that the fronts, center and surrounds are easy to calibrate without having to rely on my hearing. The SPL does most of the work.

For the sub, you must rely on your own hearing and personal preference and not the SPL. Bottom line, I'll probably add a db or subtract a db here and there and move on.

Although it has been frustrating, this will not detract from how great the sub sounds when I put a movie on.

Another observation, I keep calling them SVS subwoofers. I didn't realize that it is SV Subwoofers and the second "S" is for subwoofers! Wonder what "SV" stands for?

John

John,

Don't be concerned about making the small adjustments with the sub. I have SUB+ and SUB- commands for on my remote for each components. Aside from the difference in the source material LFE level that you may want to adjust for, I find that the difference between musiv and movies is sometimes 3-4 db. Personal preference can override calibration. I always try to return the sub level to what I calibrated when I am finished watching/listening to what I adjusted.

Ray, just curious. You said " I find that the difference between music and movies is sometimes 3-4 db". Is your music the higher number (more dB)?

No John, just the opposite. I like music that blends all of the audio. A heavy driving bass is distracting. If accentuated bass it is part of the sound mix, the calibration of the speakers will take care of that.

On the other hand, I like the chest-thumping parts of movies where bass is intended to live. Explosions, collisions, gunfire - all of those types of things seem a bit laid back in most movies. When we settle in for a movie and turn off the lights (except for the backlight), we like to crank it up a bit to get to a quasi-theater experience and I generally tweak the sub to help.

The neat part of that is the LFE that is uncovered. For example, bringing the sub up 4 db makes the difference from just watching Star Trek - Insurrection to being in the ships because of the undercurrent of LFE you feel.

Yeah, but why would you want to watch ST: Insurrection? That BASTARD Rick Berman....

I'm only bitter because I watched it on my birthday last year and had such high hopes. And it blew.

Good point, Ray. This also helps my point as to how subjective the sub calibration can be. When I calibrated the sub, the initial reading was about 4 dB higher than the left front. Therefore, I lowered the sub about 4dB to match the other speakers. I feel the sub is more intended for movies so I am upping the sub level.

Another point of confusion is the small vs. large fronts. When setting to small, all sounds below 80Hz go to the sub. When I change back and forth between large and small fronts (with sub), I don't notice much of a difference when listening to music. I also tried large without sub vs. small with sub, and also noticed little difference. I guess I expected to hear a significant difference.

"When I calilbrate in DD, I wind up with 6 settings for the speakers and the sub. If I then play a CD in 2CH, the left,right and sub are set at 0 dB on the receiver. When I play a CD in 5CH, all the speakers are set at 0 dB on the receiver. Why, because I never calibrated in that mode and the DVD does not allow me to. Therefore, do I just take the DD settings and adjust the 2CH and 5CH settings accordingly?? "

I have a Denon 3805. After doing a manual calibration using the DVD, while playing a 5.1 source go into 'system setup' , 'speaker setup' , 'channel level' and start your tones. It will now show all the levels in this menu just like you calibrated with the DVD. Adjust the level on one speaker and then move it back. Exit the menu and voila, now you have set the default calibration!

All the best,

Dave

Dave - thanks for the great tip! I was thinking about this and realized I had never checked my 3803 beyond 5.1. I suspect it works the same way. I' ll look into it.

i believe "s" is one founder ron stimpson or simpson & "v" is the other tom v. i see them posting in other forums a lot that is the only reason i partially know that answer.

Right, Jake. S=Stimpson and V=Vodhanel("the subhuman").