Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Need help on cabling.

Gents, I am wiring my m60s in the basement now and I need to run 15ft to the subs and around 12 feet from subs to the m60tis. I do have the monster cable xp. I can return the cables if you guys would suggest any other cables.

1. Do I need to make sure that all my cables are of the same length (L, center, R). Future shop said that with Monster cables, there's no need. Other says otherwise.

2. Is the monster xp good enough for the 27ft run. Others suggest that I need 12 gauge. Future shop says monster cables don't believe in thickness any more as they are manufacturing cables in fine strand twists and that what's good for the speakers.

It's all marketing from future shop but I bought the monster cable ($99.95) because it's cheaper that Acoustic research 12 gauge wires ($130 for 100 footer). I don't mind the extra $30, but do need to spend the extra money if I don't need it.

Hope you guys could spend a bit of your time and let me know.

Cheers!

I think back in the tube days there was a valid reason for matching speaker wire lengths (capacitance, not propogation delay) but that is not an issue with modern equipment. The speaker wire must reach the speaker... that is still an important rule which I occasionally forget when cutting

Is the Monster wire 16 ga ? If so, I would call that a bit thin for a 27' run. The Axiom cable is ultra fine strand (probably finer than what you have) but is still 12 gauge. Fine strands aren't going to make up for too fine a wire. There are some standard tables which show wire gauge vs. length and speaker impedence but I can't find a link right now. I think you need 14 ga minimum though.

I took my Monster wire back to Futureshop and went to Home Depot instead, picked up a bunch of 12 ga speaker wire there for something like $30.

If you're looking for a good explanation for the customer service at FS (not like they care ) check that the Monster wire is polarized, ie that you have an easy way to tell which conductor is which at the other end of the wire (insulation markings or different conductor colours). The Monster wire I bought wasn't even polarized !!

Dumb question -- do you have passive subs (ie no amp built in) ? If not, you should be using an RCA cable to connect the subs not speaker wire...

I think the monster cable is only 16... doubt if it is 14Gauge.

Yeah, I saw the axiom bulk cables and the prices was about the same as Monster. They are not transparent and my first thought was they were for in wall. Can I used them for non- in wall use?

Anything that can be used in wall can be used out of wall. I also think it's fairly safe to ignore anything Monster says.

My standard cable response...

Blue Jeans Cable

They can answer all your questions and get the best buy on all your cabling needs. You won't find their quality for less anywhere. (I've looked!)

Geez, thanks for reminding me, Spiff! I almost forgot my standard response!

BTW, I did this with cables from Blue Jeans, and I believe they'll put together cables for you like this (which is what you have, right, Craig?) and they'll be a lot prettier than the disasters I put together.

In reply to:

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and they'll be a lot prettier than the disasters I put together

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what, like coat hangers with alligator clips on the end?

No, I just hadn't a clue how to use heatshrink properly. I've removed the heatshrink now in the interest of not pulling my binding posts off...

I made my own speaker cables (from raw speaker cable bought from Blue Jeans, and heat shrink and tech flex from parts express). I think they came out rather well. I don't have the confidence to attempt interconnects though. I've also found it to be financially impractical...as I can buy a set from Blue Jeans for just about the same or less than I could make my own.

DB, for the distances you describe 16ga wire would be plenty, but the problem is that $100 for 100' of it is far more than necessary; $30 would be more reasonable if you need 100'. Consider returning that Monster.

As far as making the connections equal length, total nonsense. It would take a difference of miles in length for the signals travelling at nearly the speed of light to have an audible timing difference. If one was say 100' longer, then the higher loss would lower the volume on that speaker the slightest amount, but calibrating volumes corrects any imbalance.

It sounds as if you want to run speaker wire to the sub and then on to the M60s. Your 335 has good bass management, so there's no good reason apparent for wiring that way. Use a coaxial cable(not speaker wire) with an RCA plug on each end from the sub output on the 335 to the low level input on the sub. Wire the M60s directly from the 335 with the 16ga speaker wire. Set all speakers small with appropriate crossover points on the 335, probably 80Hz for the M60s and maybe 100Hz for the others.

Gents, Thanks for all your advice. I am convinced that I don't need the monster cables. Blue jeans and ultra link are good options. Are there any other cables you guys suggest?

With regards to the sub connections, a friend of mine owns an SVS and he's using both (line level and speaker outs) and I didn't ask why. He just somehow mentioned to me. My svs is arriving next week so for now I am just preparing the wires. I already purchased silver serpent better cables.

Thanks again and, please, if you guys recommnend other cables, please let me know. I still need to run my m60tis 15 ft away from my receiver.

This forum has been a very good guide to me.

Cheers.

>>and I didn't ask why

Probably best to ask. The only reason I can think of is that he had an old receiver without bass management so needed speaker-level wires to the sub (then on to his mains), got a new receiver which let him use a line level connection, but didn't get around to rewiring the mains to not go past the sub any more.

For 15 feet I guess even 16ga should be OK... resist the temptation to open the Monster reel just because you have it in your hands. That's how they win

Home Depot stays open late in many cities and I'm sure WalMart sells wire if you're desperate.

Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with Monster products AFAIK, we just think they're kind of expensive and find their marketing pitches unusually slimy.

DB, for a 15' run to the M60s use any regular 16ga lampcord from Home Depot or similar for maybe twenty cents a foot.

Don't know how the connector quality compares to Bluejeans, but http://www.svideo.com is cheaper. Unless you're unlucky and end up with a bad ground on shielded cable, or it corrodes through or something like that, bad quality cable will be electrically indistinguishable from good cable at audio frequencies, but good quality connectors can help if you're plugging/unplugging all the time. They have really cheap adapters (I needed a coupler) and shipping is included in all prices (even for a $2 adapter).

A really cool idea if you want invisible (but permanent) wiring without messing around with dragging cables through walls is to use flat cables. Haven't tried it, but I would if I ever put in surrounds. (I'm the guy who selected the HSU cylindrical TN-1220HO sub because it fit best behind the audio armoire.)

Check out http://www.smarthome.com/8470.html for an example. They call it "tape wire" and have 2, 4 and 8-conductor tapes, in 100ft spools for $110-$160. They're quite fine (18ga and smaller) but that's acceptable to 50ft. If you're really concerned with the gauge (don't be!) use 2 18ga in parallel in a 4-conductor tape, or use the tape with 2 14ga and 2 26ga and ignore the 26ga wires.

How is it invisible? Here's their literature:
"The age-old debate of clean appearance vs. easy installation is finally over! Now you can get the best of both worlds with Tape Wire: high-grade cable so thin that it virtually disappears under wallpaper, carpeting or paint — without the hassle of cutting drywall and fishing wire through walls!
"To install it, just peel back the self-adhesive backing and apply it to any smooth wall, ceiling, or floor! To install on a finished wall, simply apply a thin coat of spackle or dry-wall joint compound and feather it out to a smooth finish. If your walls have a textured surface, apply a texture over the surface. Use primer paint over the work area and paint for match the rest of the wall. Once covered, the Tape Wire is completely unnoticeable. Connect it to your speaker wire via a Tape Wire Connector (sold separately), which holds both the Tape Wire and the speaker wire securely in place."

Cool eh?

Crutchfield recommends 16ga up to 80ft, and they're in the business of trying to get you to spend money with them.
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/home/speakers_wire.html

They also say "For audiophile-quality music systems — using the best wire possible helps bring out fine musical detail". At least they didn't attempt to specify what makes a wire the "best possible" or else I wouldn't steer anyone to this website.

i use flat cable for my surrounds, but it's not tape wire. I accidentally bought some Acoustic Research self adhesive tape wire, and it was really awful to work with and tried to pull the tape off the walls. I got the flat cable instead (16 gauge), along with some double sided foam tape, and that looks pretty darn good, if I say so myself. It also doesn't pull paint off the wall.