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#91315 - 04/28/05 12:25 PM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
simboticus Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 134
Loc: SF bay area
Hi Res music isn't taking off for a couple of reasons already mentioned, supid record companies, special equipment, but I think the biggest reason is that most people don't care. Those of us on this board are NOT the typical demographic. WE care about sound quality, we have the equipment to produce high sound quality. The intire music industry is moving in the opposite diretion, to poorer sound quality. MP3's. The average joe blow thinks the sound quality of MP#'s is just fine, they don't even realize it's worse than standard CD, they have never heard of redbook or SACD or DVD-A. Even if hi res was marketed better it wouldn't make much difference. People want to download music in MP# or WMA onto their iPod's, that level of sound quality if perfectly acceptable to 90% of the music buying public. I've had many conversations with co-workers trying to convince them that MP3's are not as good as a CD. They think because it's digital that it's an exact copy. Many of those who do understand there is data compression can't even hear the difference. How are we supposed to convince them that they need something that is better than CD quality? They don't have the hardware to hear the difference, and most of them don't really care.

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#91316 - 04/28/05 12:35 PM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7403
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
You know, it makes me laugh when I hear radio stations saying, "Now broadcasting in high-definition digital sound."

Um, yeah, thanks. . .

I agree--we are the minority demographic. The convenience and "coolness" of ipods and mp3 players far outweighs sound quality. You are right, though, I recall many befuddled looks when I try to explain why I don't have an mp3 player because of quality. "You can hear it, right? So what's the problem?"

Also, for some weird reason, I'm the type of listener who likes to listen to albums from start to finish. I don't know why. Random playback doesn't do much for me. Yeah, I know--I'm wierd. What can I say?
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#91317 - 04/28/05 09:57 PM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
"That's STUPID. Great...no one can steal the music, but NO ONE IS BUYING IT EITHER YOU IDIOTS!"

Spiff,
That, in a nutshell, is the greatest comment I have seen regarding SACD / DVD-A.
I love the formats, but I fear that it is just going to be killed by the idiots that are trying to sell it.
What a shame.

_________________________
Axioms; For when you've just Gotta have More Cowbell! 60s 150 350 8s 2is RX-V2500 DVD-C750 2900

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#91318 - 05/01/05 09:40 AM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
"When you do get your "Kind of Blue" SACD, do you mind reporting on the sound and mix? It seems like you're very familiar with the material and I'd appreciate your opinion as to whether that disc would be a good first...errrr...second foray into the genre!"

Well, I discovered that Tower will not ship an order if you have a "pre-release" item on it. I had the new Live X DVD on the order, but it is not coming out until May 10, so they were holding the entire order.
All should be here on Mon. or Tues.

And yes, I'll report back on the Kind of Blue.
And a further yes, I think that Kind of Blue IS a great intro into Jazz. This is one of the things which has driven it to "Multi Diamond" status.
The other Miles album that I always recommend as a "first jazz" album, especially if you are coming at it from the Rock side of things, is "A Tribute to Jack Johnson".
That is a Rock album, first and foremost, that just happened to be put out by one of the greatest (electric) jazz bands of all time.
_________________________
Axioms; For when you've just Gotta have More Cowbell! 60s 150 350 8s 2is RX-V2500 DVD-C750 2900

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#91319 - 05/03/05 09:24 PM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
How frustrating for SACD fans is this?

Deep Discount CD has a separate section for Dual Discs, but not mention of SACD anywhere on their site! (or DVD-A for that matter) If you want to find SACD's you have to search them out.

Why do they promote one and not the other? I went to Tower Records this weekend and they had a big stand up display of dual disc right in front of the door as you walked in. SACD's? All mixed in with the rest of the cd's. You have to know exactly what disc you want and whether or not it's even available on SACD if you hope to find one.

If dual discs sound as good as SACD's (my primary concern being the 5.1 mixes) then great. But why didn't SACD receive this kind of attention when it debuted?

(I guess I know the answer to that already though...SACD is a pain in the butt.)


_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#91320 - 05/03/05 11:14 PM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
curtis Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 1501
Loc: Manhattan Beach, CA
I keep telling you....because it requires special equipment.

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#91321 - 05/04/05 02:17 AM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

I guess I know the answer to that already though...SACD is a pain in the butt.


And nobody likes a sore ass.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#91322 - 05/04/05 02:42 AM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
In reply to:

I keep telling you....because it requires special equipment.




I give you that with SACD, but DVD-A doesn't. We could have been hearing 5.1 channel mixes of music for the past decade!


_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#91323 - 05/04/05 07:41 AM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
""When you do get your "Kind of Blue" SACD, do you mind reporting on the sound and mix?"

OK, my package got here last night, and the SACD of Kind of Blue is indeed terrific.
Only listened in multi-channel, but there is much better separation of the various players than on the Redbook version, the mix is tilted towards the front soundstage, with just some ambience, and supporting sounds coming from the surrounds, and everyone is firmply planted across the front soundstage. Cannonball always to the right, 'Trane always to the left, drums and Miles frmly planted in the center, Piano to the lower left. What I really like about this one, that I think was missing from the other various editions I have had is a good sense of the room that it was recorded in, which was a pretty large room for a studio, compared to what was the norn for that era. Bob Beldin did the multi-channel remastering, and I think he does a great job in general, and has done some great work with Miles' recordings in the past.
I'll have to do some A/B-ing with my other copies, but so far I can say that I much prefer it to the 5.1 mix on the Dual Disc. That seemed a bit bloated and blousy, and not as firmly planted as this one seems.
And, as I have found with my other SACDs, multi-channel or not, I find that the depth and thickness of everything to be wonderful.
You can hear 'Trane's reeds vibrating during quiet passages, and sounds that I used to think were the springs vibrating on the bottom of the snare are now easily recognized as the light sweeping of brushes on cymbals. The cymbals just seem to shimmer forever. That first big cymbal hit, at the beginning of So What just leaps out at you.
All in all, very well done, and very much worth the extra effort to track down.
If you are a Jazz or Miles fan, I would say that this one is a must have.
And if you are not, then this one just might be that final nudge needed to get into Miles and Jazz.
I'll report back on In a Silent Way, and the two Bill Evans I picked up later.

_________________________
Axioms; For when you've just Gotta have More Cowbell! 60s 150 350 8s 2is RX-V2500 DVD-C750 2900

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#91324 - 05/04/05 07:52 AM Re: Bought my FIRST DualDisc!
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
"they had a big stand up display of dual disc right in front of the door as you walked in."

Yeah, that one got me pretty angry too.
(and yeah, I think I know the answer as well.)

And no, to my ear, with the limited litstening I have done so far, I do not think that the DD 5.1 mixes are close to what SACD or DVD-A offer.
I'm betting that some of our more science and tech oriented guys here can provide a discourse of sampling rates and the like, but I doubt that you can squeeze in as much info on a disc that is also carrying Video content and "special features" as you can on one that is only providing music.
_________________________
Axioms; For when you've just Gotta have More Cowbell! 60s 150 350 8s 2is RX-V2500 DVD-C750 2900

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