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#93751 - 05/09/05 10:05 AM Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
audiofan Offline
local

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 203
Hi,
Has anyone replaced the regular receptacle or power port by using the hospital grade one, such ps audio http://psaudio.com/products/powerport.asp or http://www.smartdev.com/AC-1.html ?

Does it actually help in audio improvement as stated or just a hype?

thanks.

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#93752 - 05/09/05 10:14 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
Port 1

Port 2

i have never used either of them.

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#93753 - 05/09/05 10:17 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
For some reason I find this hard to believe, sorry
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#93754 - 05/09/05 11:48 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Have you replaced your in wall wiring? Have you replaced your circuit breakers? Have you replaced the high tension lines back to the power plant? It's not going to make a difference.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#93755 - 05/09/05 12:12 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Audiofan...

The green dot denotes "Hospital Grade" - what is hospital grade? It just refers to a greater grip strength on the prongs placed into it. (So granny's breathing machine doesn't fall out of the wall)

The orange triangle denotes isolated ground. What does that mean if you don't actually have an electrician wire an isolated ground to this plug? About the same as me putting a Corvette 427 plate on a Chevette. Nothing. The second link does show that the ground on the orange plug is "isolated" from the outlet chassis, but then goes on to say the NEC (or CEC in Canada) requires metallic electrical boxes to be grounded (which is true - if a hot lead slipped off or frayed, it could energize the box otherwise!) so it's really a moot point.

The best way to burn off the BS here is... how far does your power come before it gets to you - and do you think your hydro company is using "audiophile" grade parts at each of their power stations? Your house is only a thousandth of a percent of the entire life of your power.

Bren R.

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#93756 - 05/09/05 12:15 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital gr
ravi_singh Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1351
Loc: Montreal
here's my experience with hospital grade receptacles (mind you, i don't know what's behind them - wiring, etc...).

I worked (will work again) for a company that sells EEG (electroencephalograph) equipment. That measures the electrical activity in your brain.

If you plugged the machine into anything but a hospital grade receptacle (especially a power bar), you would see 60hz interference in the EEG signal. when plugged into a hospital grade receptacle, that went away.

my assumption, though, is that tv's and receivers and cd players, etc, have built in filters to block out this noise, otherwise you'd hear or see a constant 60hz buzz.

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#93757 - 05/09/05 12:24 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital gr
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
I had hospital plugs in my old house. Help the sound? yeah right. but they are alot better then the 98 cent ones that are standard. Dont buy the ps audio ones. waste money. Just go to an electrincal supply house or something and get some.
_________________________
Haoleb's Audio/DIY Website

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#93758 - 05/09/05 12:34 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital gr
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

If you plugged the machine into anything but a hospital grade receptacle (especially a power bar), you would see 60hz interference in the EEG signal. when plugged into a hospital grade receptacle, that went away.


But was that because of a hospital grade plug, or was that because the hospital grade plug was wired to a circuit separated from the fluorescent lights, air handlers, floor waxers, paging system, etc...?

Our video booth has a discreet ground from the rest of the building as well (with regular "orange triangle" plugs as a demarcation) depending where else in the building you get power from, but you can find 60 cycle hum on a few of the 4 distinct grounds in the building. (especially where the ice plant gets it's power!)

Bren R.

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#93759 - 05/09/05 12:39 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital gr
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
I wired my basement, and I'm now electrician. Used the standard $1 outlets from Menards, works like a charm, those that pay more must own BOSE
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#93760 - 05/09/05 04:44 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
No, they will not improve SQ. 110V AC at 60 cycles will be the same regardless of the receptacle and internal wiring and panel make up. If you have dirty power going into the grind from the power generator, thereís nothing that household wiring will do to fix that. You could buy a power conditioner if youíre really interested in cleaning power to your equipment though. They will make a difference in that regard. A difference in SQ, doubtful, but it will increase equipment longevity.

Hospital grade receptacles are manufactured to a more stringent UL specification. The green dot denotes that they have this particular UL rating(s). Theyíre built with heavier gauge copper and brass components, a self grounding strap, thicker banding, tougher face that is chemical and impact resistant, and in general, built to withstand the abuse of gorillas. I have them throughout my home, but I didnít buy them for the grade. I wanted grey receptacles, and HG were the only way that I could get that color when I was building the house.

_________________________


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#93761 - 05/09/05 07:14 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
I do have the hosiptal grade outlets.I also have a dedicated 20 amp circuit breaker for my stereo gear.I think I only paid $10 a piece for the outlets ( at Home Depot ) and the line was run for free thanks to an electrican friend of mine.Does it make sq diference ? No I don't think so but hey what the heck,I wanted it so I did it.We have thousands invested in this gear what the heck difference does another 20 bucks matter if ya want it.And no I don't have Bose.


Edited by wid (05/09/05 07:18 PM)
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#93762 - 05/09/05 07:33 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa


B etter
O ff
S elling on
E bay
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#93763 - 05/09/05 07:40 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
In reply to:



B etter
O ff
S elling on
E bay




Ebay will actually let somebody sell that stuff on their site?











_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#93764 - 05/09/05 08:22 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
I really don't see the logic in replacing 3 prong electrical outlets with hospital grade outlets. I find it difficult to believe that there is REALLY any measurable electrical performance difference.

If you want it just to have it, GREAT, go for it.

Just one man's opinion.

The Rat.
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#93765 - 05/10/05 12:42 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3191
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi Audiofan,

Nope, sound quality isn't going to change. PS Audio is particularly aggressive pushing this power-conditioning nonsense, and associated gear, which is totally unnecessary.

Some years ago, a reviewer (for Stereophile, I believe) recommended using only AC power generated by water (Hydro) power. Swore that it "improved sound quality."

Bizarre.

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#93766 - 05/10/05 01:44 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

Some years ago, a reviewer (for Stereophile, I believe) recommended using only AC power generated by water (Hydro) power. Swore that it "improved sound quality."


Compared to getting your AC from a lightning collector a la Dr. Frankenstein, I'd have to agree with him.

Maybe it's more organic sounding - your power would throb in ebb and flow with Mother Earth.

Bren R.

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#93767 - 05/10/05 03:07 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
Do you guys think that one of those supermarket surge protectors will do?? I have one Belkin for now, but I am looking hard at Panamax 5300 and Monster 3600 line conditioners. If they will not improve any audio at all, then I should not waste my money.
_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#93768 - 05/10/05 05:43 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital gr
audiofan Offline
local

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 203
thanks all for your comments. I think will get go with panamax 5300 or may be lower version for surge protection.

thanks again.

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#93769 - 05/10/05 08:52 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital gr
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Check out the Outlaw 1050 thread on the Axiom owner advise board. Some discussion about this on that string.
_________________________


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#93770 - 05/10/05 10:48 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10411
Bren, obviously the water power should provide a "cleaner" sound.

As far as power conditioning goes, as Alan pointed out, this is nonsense. The actual amplification section of an amplifier doesn't use the supposedly "dirty" AC coming out of the wall. The transformer, rectifier and filter capacitors in the power supply section of the amplifier supply clean DC to be used in the amplification process and no further conditioning is needed. At most, on the separate question of surges, one of the relatively inexpensive devices in the $20-$30 area could be of some limited usefulness.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#93771 - 05/11/05 01:35 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

As far as power conditioning goes, as Alan pointed out, this is nonsense. The actual amplification section of an amplifier doesn't use the supposedly "dirty" AC coming out of the wall.


Agreed. Part of home theatre is video, though, which does benefit in some cases from "clean" power... especially when dealing with RF cable.

Bren R.

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#93772 - 05/11/05 02:08 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
As some of you know I have a fair bit of money invested on the electrical side of my HT system. While I must admit that some of it is overkill, some of it is not. To keep this basic and not draw myself into this debate to far...........(I tend to disagree with the thought that the electrical side of a HT system should be overlooked), I do however agree that when it comes to video and the average house, something should be in the system as far as filtration goes. Does it have to cost $1500.00? Nope. Should it cost more then $25.00? I think so but there is a happy medium.

One that I have found and have been recommending for a long time now is the Tripp Lite HT10DBS. It's a little more money then your average power bar but well worth the investment.

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2813

One thing to note as far as my own system goes. The only thing I have plugged into mine are video related devices. DVD, TV, Satellite stuff etc. I don't have any amps or receivers running through it..........and yes, it makes a difference with cleaning up background video noise etc.

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#93773 - 05/11/05 11:53 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
well that settles it guys, i'm gonna go out to Lowe's and get a diesel generator with nice tight voltage and speed control, run a dedicated circuit to the home theater and use that for the best in viewing satisfaction. of course i'll have to use a really long extension cord so i can't actually hear the diesel, but i'm sure my neighbor down the street won't mind having it in his yard.
_________________________
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

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#93774 - 05/11/05 12:09 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Thereís too many threads going on to keep up and keep repeating myselfÖÖÖbut Iíll repeat myself one more time and state that I have no idea if a conditioner will improve SQ. I donít have a friggin clue. What I know for certain though, is that a conditioner will increase longevity of electronic equipment. Fluctuating power cycles are terrible on electronics. Just as bad, if not worse than spikes. So if you have a few grand rapped up in electronics, you ought to consider spending a few hundred more on protective devises to keep your electronic gear out of the repair shop. Warrantees donít last all that long. Do some research and by what you can afford, but donít go on the cheap.
_________________________


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#93775 - 05/11/05 12:42 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

well that settles it guys, i'm gonna go out to Lowe's and get a diesel generator with nice tight voltage and speed control, run a dedicated circuit to the home theater and use that for the best in viewing satisfaction.


Wow, you guys still use diesel there? After the wartime price hike in fuel here, we all went back to whale oil. Cheap, effective, and the exhaust smells like fish sticks!

Bren R.

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#93776 - 05/11/05 02:42 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital gr
md55 Offline
local

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 284
Loc: Nevada City, CA
I invested in extention cord--plugged in at the local hospital...
_________________________
Mark

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#93777 - 05/12/05 05:52 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
In reply to:

Wow, you guys still use diesel there?


i'll just siphon it out of all of the bubba trucks here, it's a lot cheaper when you steal it.
_________________________
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

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#93778 - 05/14/05 02:59 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Hi mdrew and those who don't already know it all. Here's an observation that may be relevant. I live in a new house, in a new development. The development is located on top of a dunno what, about 2000' above sea level overlooking the Pacific on one side, a canyon on another and the flats at a bit above sea level to the north. This place is as quiet as a tomb. During the day the loudest noise you hear are the birds. At night, it is QUIET.

I demoed my T Amp and my office system for a friend this evening. The T Amp sounded amazing - "that sounds like live music!" my friend said in shocked amazement. He was correct. My office system sounded very good, but not as good. The office system is driven by an Anthem PVA 5 5 channel amp, Sony TA E 9000ES processor, the source was the Cox HD cable box playing 'Soundscapes.' The speakers are the M60 like Michaura M665s, a pair of Mission 77ds surrounds, a highly modified Merak MC6H center with 2x6.5" Axiom aluminum drivers and a horn tweeter, a Dahlquist PDQ1500 15" sub and a Klipsch LF10 stacked in that order.

Anyway, it is now almost 12 midnight and I notice that the sound of the office system has improved terrifically from what it sounded like at 8 PM. The ambient noise level is the same, that is to say, it is insignificant. Now, maybe there are fewer folks drawing on the cable company's resources, or maybe the line voltage goes up a bit late at night as folks turn off their appliances and lights and go to bed. Maybe it has something to do with the electricity. I know I am not the only one who has noticed an improvement in the sound of my solid state equipment late at night. Maybe all the 'well designed' solid state equipment is not impervious to the electricity coming from the mains, into the house, and into our sound systems.


_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#93779 - 05/14/05 09:37 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
And,

Where did you get your degree in electrical engineering?

What scientific method did you use in your analysis?

What type of test equipment did you use?

How was it calibrated.

Going to tell us, now, that moster cable sounds better than other "quality" cable??

Not intended to flame but...............

From:

Someone who knows something, but not everything!

The Rat.
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#93780 - 05/14/05 09:44 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
On a more technical note, the listening differences could actually be a function of the thermal differences in your listening environment. Temperature/ humidity/ pressure can change the way sound waves are transmitted and reflected off of the walls, windows, etc.

Just something else to consider.

The Rat.
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#93781 - 05/14/05 09:54 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
correct, the difference in the power grid at night is later on when people start going to bed and common household loads gets turned off the voltage goes higher. but the power plants adjust voltage back down in short order, so the effect on a stereo system should be negligible.
_________________________
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

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#93782 - 05/14/05 11:28 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Iím confused, are you just making a point, agreeing with me, disagreeing with me, or think I think I know everything?. Well if you do, Iím not making any claims regarding SQ. And I do not know everything, didnít claim to, have no intention to do so either. Iím one of the dumbest SOBís I know. Just ask one of my X-wives and theyíll confirm that. So, Iím not going to go on about how many generators Iíve sincíed and tied on, or how many times Iíve seen power factor fluctuations, or how many times Iíve seen dips and bounces in the buss.

Iíll just tell ya that the substation feeding your area probably see times during peak user hours when heavy user instantaneous power demands may cause cycle drops on the grid feeding your substation. It all depends on the subís capacity, feed, and who the peak users are, and what they are powering up. 220/240/208V going into your meter will not change, but you can bet on cycle fluctuations. More so during these peak user hours.

So your observation with your tube amps may in fact be happening. I donít doubt it. But I wouldnít expect you to notice it over a Ďgeneralí period of time. Cycle fluctuations are immediate, and generators compensate very quickly. It may be that your substation is grossly under capacity, especially if your area has seen some significant development recently. And if this is happening, you and your neighbors would most likely be experiencing brown outs and seeing an unusually high failure rate on electronic devises throughout your homes. TVís and telephones are prime candidates. They are the first to go in my home.

_________________________


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#93783 - 05/14/05 01:09 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
No, no mdrew, I was not referring to you at all. I was responding to your post as one which is open minded.

I don't know whether a different recepticle, power cord, power conditioner, etc. can make a difference in SQ. I'm just open to the possibility. I used the difference in sound quality at night as an example of a possible noticeable difference in SQ which might be attributable to power.

I sure don't have an EE background. I can solder tweaks to my sound equipment without setting myself on fire and know enough not to take electrical appliances into the bathtub with me.

If it sounded otherwise, sorry - I'll watch out for making late night posts. No offense meant mdrew!!
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#93784 - 05/14/05 02:29 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital gr
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16297
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
There's a big difference between 'open minded' and 'giving credence to disproven ideas'.... It smacks of what's going on in the Kansas education system at the moment.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented moreÖ" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#93785 - 05/14/05 03:32 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
Folks: the bottom line is that the power supply of any modern receiver should "take out" all power fluctuations except major "brown or black" outs. I seem to recall 10% fluctuation as the number, but that was a long time ago. Maybe someone can quote the capabilities of current power supplies. The surges in your primary AC power are compensated, in part, by the capacitors in your power supply.

Unless there is REALLY something strange going on, you should NOT see any difference cause by your power company.

The Rat.
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#93786 - 05/14/05 10:35 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5440
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
So... coming in late and reading the entire thread at once, I think the message is that "hospital grade outlets give cleaner power because they are wired up to cleaner power in the hospital". The only benefit of the outlet itself (without the special wiring) is better plug retention and better ability to survive cola spills without disintegrating into sludge.

Spending a few $$ making sure your HT system isn't on the same circuit as the air conditioner, florescent lights, garage door opener or aquarium pump probably IS worth doing.

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#93787 - 05/15/05 12:44 PM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
and there's the "Sportscenter" version of it folks, just the highlights! good summary.
_________________________
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

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#93788 - 05/16/05 09:03 AM Re: Replacing household receptacle by hospital grade.
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
In reply to:

Sportscenter



DA-DA-DUN..DA-DA-DUN..



bigjohn
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EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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