Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Lack of volume

I have M60Ti/QS8/VP100 and got Pioneer VSX1015TX (110W*7)last week. My problem is a percieved lack of volume. I am able to go all the way upto 0db or even higher on the -80db to 12db range of the receiver at resonably lound levels. On analoge Satellite box input, I can go all the way to 12db. AudioVideo who sold me the receiver says, the receiver is ok and says spekers are to blame. Axioms are supposed to be lound if not anything else. What could be wrong ? Is it normall for receivers to be near the top of their volume stting range for normal listening ? I would have assumed that the amp should have easily driven me crazy with sound. I am going crazy thinking about all the money I have spent on the axioms that I cannot send back now (more than 30 days).
Please help

Do you have an SPL meter? As loudness is in the ear of the listener, it's tough to say whether or not there is any problem without an absolute measurement. I know that my M60s,VP150, and QS8s powered by my (measly) Kenwood VR-507 can get well beyond a comfortable listening volume in my room. Also what is the audio source you're using for this test? (CD, DVD, etc...)

EDIT: does the satellite box have it's own volume control? If it does, and is turned down, that might explain some of your problem.

I dont have my Axioms yet...but I can tell you from what I have read here over the last month or so..that the speakers are not at fault. Make sure...double sure that your connectivity is correct and that you have set your speaker levels on your receiver properly. I sincerely doubt that any speakers (in this price range) are to blame for low volumes. An spl meter (radio shack has nice ones) is not expensive and always a good tool to have on hand to allow you to better tune your listening environment.

Cheers.

-Tarun

I have used an SPL meter and managed to achieve the 75db level for calibration etc. My only concern is that I have to go way up on the volume control, almost to the very top to get these levels. ie if I moved to a larger room, my pioneer would run out of breath, while my measly kenwood still do the work ? Why do I have to be running the Pioneer near its max when many have mentioned that normal listening requires far less power.

Strange... I wouldnt know what else to try. Try using one speaker at a time and see if some sound correct where as others dont... Maybe one bad pea in the pod? Sorry...wish I had more smarts to give you better advice.

If I turn up my Kenwood I get into the 90db range pretty easily. (Granted, I find that to be quite loud, and don't listen at those volumes.) If you can only reach 75db at the peak of the Pioneer's volume range, that doesn't sound right to me. I second the comment that the Axioms are not the problem though. How big is your room, and how far away from the speakers are you doing your calibration?

I dont actually have my speakers yet...as I mentioned in my first post. Currently I have disposed of my entire setup with the exception of my old 43" Toshiba Theatervision Rear Projection TV.

The plan is to drive 2xM60's, 1 VP150, 4xQS8's, and an EP500 via a Harman Kardon DPR2005 or AVR7300. The 2005 puts out 120w/channel and the 7300 110w/channel.

I will post results in July...hopefully.

-Tarun

One other note... Even I have been pondering the idea of adding 2 outlaw 200's for my M60's.. I figured having outboard amps for the fronts would releive the pressure on the receiver for the other channels. Most dont think its a good idea...

Well, let it be said that while my Kenwood sounds great at my typical listening levels, it doesn't cut it for extended loud listening sessions. I plan to replace it with a Denon 3805 when I have a few months devoid of random expenses popping up. (As they always seem to do for me.) All I was really saying is that It will push 90db's, and I would expect a comparable (better, really) reciever to do the same.

Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of your questions...
The Sattelite box doesnot have a sound control. With DVD source I get fairly loud voume near the top range -10 to 0db volume setting. With Sattelite box(analog) I can go all the way to the top (12db). It is loud at that setting though.
Stupid query but, can some of you comment as to what ratio of your amps full range do you normally listen at. I am happy with the volume level I get, but the fact that I have to be at 90% of the receivers range makes me go nuts.

I have a HK 235 AVR with the output split into 3 zones around my house driving 2 M22s and a Velodyne CHT-8 sub in my living room (roughly 24 X 20 X 20 = 9600 cubic feet - SPL meter used at 18 feet). I set the receiver at -5 (range -80 to +15) to listen to what I consider loud music (about 80dB). When I want to "crank it up" I can get 100+ dB. If it weren't driving 2 other zones it would be even louder... You might see if the salesman would let you try out another receiver (ideally bring home 2 models - one that is just like what you bought to compare to yours and one that is different and a very good known receiver like a Denon or HK - even if it were just a 2 channel stereo receiver...)

Have you tried different modes like stereo or pure stereo for CD? Does it have dsp modes? Are you using one of those? At -10 volume you should get 90-95dB (real loud). My listening settings are -25 to -20.

Have you called Axiom?

I have a Denon 2802 that drove M60s, et al, to extremely loud levels on its own (I have since added an outboard 2 channel amp - a sensible upgrade, IMO, if you have some spare coin).
For the original poster: the speakers are not to blame, and it may not even be the receiver. Everytime I had a problem with something, it seemed to come down to error on my part in set-up. I'm guessing that is the case here, as well. OTOH, my digital cable box does require more turns on the volume knob to achieve the same spl levels as other sources, but not to the extent you are experiencing.
AH HA! You're not running the audio signal to the TV first and then out to your receiver are you? If so, the TV's volume level will determine how much signal goes to the receiver. Eureka!

The analogue signal from the satellite receiver will be significantly lower than the digital output signal. You should try using the satellite receiver’s optical output to your AVR. I noticed I huge difference in overall SQ with mine.

Regardless of that, you have something set wrong. You should be able to get 90 DB's or so out of that Pioneer. It may not sound all that terrific, but it'll be loud as hell.

It’s not the speakers, it’s something else. Definitely not the speakers though. Unless you removed the binding post bridge…..possibly?

I am driving all the inputs directly not via TV. I have tried various stuff by way of setup changes. Not much change in volume. As I said, the amp can reach hig volume, just that it does so at the high end of its cpability. That worries me

Do you have a buddy that could take a look at your setup? Something just doesn't "feel" right in your situation/ description.

It is difficult to believe that all of your speakers are bad. Even if you had one or two bad, I would expect the others to blow you right out of the room at those settings!!!!

I tend to believe that either the receiver is not getting the source signals or the receiver just isn't operating properly.

Darn! Oh well, good luck.

I had a similar problem with a Pioneer vsx-1014, which I returned. The Denon AVR 1083 which I have now seemed to be on the quiet side at 75 db until I calibrated it at 80 db using an spl meter. I suggest you give that a try.

I don't have a Pioneer. But on my HK the DB channel adjusts are not set for all output formats. So if I go from a digital to an analog source and change from Dolby to some other DSP I need to reset the channel outputs. If your giving a large amount of offset in one mode you would certainly find another very quiet if it was set at 0db.

I have no idea if your receiver works this way.

I have an HK630 and HK3270 which I use with a variety of Axiom speakers. I normally play movies around -10 and music around -20 on the M60s, going down to -20 and -30 respectively for "background" listening.

Having said that, some CDs need to be played up to 10dB louder (ie -10) to be even moderately loud, and need to be at or above 0dB if I want "loud".

With the smaller, less efficient M2s I had to turn the volume control even higher for the same volume levels but I usually stopped before getting to 0dB.

Your volume settings with the DVD sound reasonable but it does seem like the signal from the satellite box is too weak. Whoever told you "it's the speakers" should probably not be trusted for other important things either

One other thing to check; sometimes when setting up channel levels (eg. left surround up 3 dB, center down 2 dB) you end up with most or all of the channel settings being below zero. That's OK but it does make everything play quieter for any given volume control setting. If you do have most or all of the channel settings set in the -ve range, just adjust them all up by the same amount.

actually one thing you may wish to check before you go too much farther is that the speakers are hooked up correctly. Check to make sure the straps between the binding posts on the back of the speakers are secure. You may also want to get your ear right up to the speaker (at lower volumes) and make sure that all the drivers are firing. It is very rare, but once in a while, the internal wiring will jiggle loose in transit and result in one of the woofers or tweeters not firing.

My apologies if someone has already mentioned this or if you have already checked.

I had a similar situation with my setup. (Click on name to see setup). I got around the situation a bit by setting my levels all up a bit higher just like bridgman says. It really helped my psyche deal with the fact that I had my volume control up in the upper regions. Make sure you are using a nice high volume CD or DVD to test the system. I am amazed at the difference in sound levels between discs playing at the same volume setting. If all else fails. . . upgrade!

Regiroy,

I got your private email but I'm going to answer you here so that others may benefit. All the advice so far is excellent.

I'd also suggest you be sure the Pioneer is set to 8 ohms (not 6 ohms, not 4 ohms). I'm sure the Pioneers give you that option, and if you chose 6 ohms, it would limit the Pioneer's power output (current limiting), which would account for the lack of volume.

It's certainly not the speakers. The M60s are quite sensitive and should play very loud on relatively little power.

Also, turn off any auto-EQ or auto-setup circuits and do a manual setup for levels with each speaker. I'm almost certain that's where your problem lies.

Regards,