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#98765 - 06/15/05 05:07 PM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
Hi Rick, I have read your other post at your M50 thread and I know that your Axioms just shipped. Congratulations for the purchase!! Please keep us posted on your experience with them after you get them. I totally understand your point with the modern CD recordings, I agree. I don't have a LP player though, and don't own any records at all.

Does anybody know if my silver interconnects influence this phenomena for worse? I know that many people here think that interconnects/cables don't make any difference, but I have also read many people arguing for the opposite.
_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#98766 - 06/15/05 08:59 PM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10389
Skerdi, as some of the other replies have indicated, this is almost certainly due entirely to the source material. A couple of years ago there was a thread here about how "painfully bright" the M60s were on certain "well-recorded" pop items. Although my own listening is almost entirely classical, curiosity led me to borrow a couple of the CDs from the library and try them on my M22s. My finding was that the recordings were at times "painfully bright", which the M22s were accurately revealing. One of my receivers has variable bass and treble turnover frequencies and a treble cut of about 4-5 dB using the 3KHz setting tamed the problem, although it still didn't make the CDs good. Apparently this may be a boost in the upper midrange around 3-4KHz rather than the treble itself, designed to be more impressive on mediocre equipment.

As far as your Silvercats(and other equipment),this has nothing whatever to do with it; there's some discussion about these things that appears to be operating at a level of comprehension along the lines of silver looking brighter than copper, therefore sounding brighter too. There's no factual basis for such nonsense, of course, and your equipment is transparent. The speakers don't cover up the problems in some recordings and unless the listening room is very dead it won't either. A cut in the upper-midrange such as I described, using an equalizer, would probably help.
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#98767 - 06/16/05 12:07 AM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I tend to agree about it being the the source material.

The are some fine performances on PBS where I don't notice the problem.

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#98768 - 06/16/05 12:29 PM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
The H2 setting is actually a combination of both bass / treble. 3 DB of each, if I remember correctly. H1 adds 3 DB of treble, while L1 is + 1.5 DB Bass and L2 is + 3 DB of Bass. O is flat.

I don’t know if I agree that it’s “just” the source material. My 80’s tend to bring this ‘S’ out as you describe. I agree that some recordings are most definitely worse, but I notice it on just about everything, if I listen for it. Symbol crashes can sound like one long ‘S’ on some recordings too. Prior to the Rotels, this problem was significantly worse. When I fired the Rotels up, I immediately noticed a change from the long ‘S’, to distinct sounds. Now after having them for a few weeks, I once again can detect the dreaded ‘S’. I’m afraid that if I plugged the speakers back into the HK 7200, I’d probably be disgusted.

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#98769 - 06/16/05 01:00 PM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
bigwill2 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 586
Listen to JohnK.
If you prefer lots of pop, you may have the wrong speakers. But you should also keep in mind that there are "ess" sounds in the real world. A speaker that doesn't do "esses" would suck. From my experience, the Axiom tweeter is not inherently sibilant - just loud, clear and accurate.

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#98770 - 06/16/05 05:07 PM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
Riffman Offline
local

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 242
It's not just the source material. It could be the room. Could be the tweeters. I have brought my M60s and amp into a dealer who had a nice room setup and didn't hear sibilance on material for which I do hear sibilance at home. In the case of this source material, the sibilance was probably cause by my room. The tweeters in Axiom speakers, while perhaps not hurting, certainly do not help. Axiom needs to improve in this area or offer a more expensive line which contains this improvement. Of course, if you always believe it's the source material then you have found your perfect speaker. lol

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#98771 - 06/16/05 05:39 PM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
If it were the tweeters, would you have not heard it at the dealer? I agree with you on material and room setup though.
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M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#98772 - 06/16/05 07:27 PM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
audiofan Offline
local

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 203
The 'S' in the sound has not much to do with room acoustic, even though room acoustic plays an important role in sound you hear. I think the tweeter in M60 is a bit harsh, but at its price, M60 has produced pretty darn good sound.

I have a chance to listen to B&W 703 at my friend's house. I must say that the high is very natural and smooth. I play the same CD from Diana Krall and B&W 703 has better sound. Note that a pair of B&W 703 costs $3000 and a pair of M60 is only 900.

I put Musical Fidelity X-10 V3 in between rotel CD player and rotel pre-am and the S's in M60 reduced a bit.

all in all , M60 is good speaker, but i think i will update it soon. Aperion is on my list too, and of course, B&W.



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#98773 - 06/16/05 07:29 PM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
I can't say I have ever noticed this on my M80s.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#98774 - 06/16/05 10:37 PM Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
Here you go guys!!! Now we're talking!!! I guess you said it all, it is not only the original recordings but other factors as well - room acoustics, Axiom's tweeters, etc. Unfortunately there is not much I can do right now:

1. I'll keep my Axioms until I am rich enough to afford some speakers in the range of usd 3000.
2. I cannot do room treatment at my living room since it is a rent apt. building. I don't feel like adding those accoustic panels to reduce sound reflections. As a matter of fact (and with some good luck) I plan on purchasing my home (together with my soon-to-be wife) in a year or year and a half. It is then that I will create my own dream HT room (preferably if I would have a basement in a town home I would be looking for).

I would really welcome anybody who may have some ideas on what to do right now!!
_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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