How to crank M80's

Posted by: huskydave

How to crank M80's - 06/26/13 05:31 PM

ok I bought a set of m80's last year and love them to death playing flac files through a top end pioneer reciever 110 w a side. I can't kick the sound I once had though with 3 cabinets on each side with 12" woofs a 4 1/2" mid and horn tweeters. i want more dbs but I was set on getting the center channel next to match but think I may want to get a bigger amp first. I listen to stereo 90 percent and watch a lot lot of movies but my centers and midlde room and rears have been destroyed from high volume playing. I would like to know if the m80's can really take 200w plus of power, they move pretty hard with 110w and I don't want to blow them. i have read from axiom that they can but I would like to know what you guys are running for amps before I continue building.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/26/13 05:37 PM

The specs say you can hook up to 400 watts to each M80. Turning up a lower powered amp to distortion levels is what will blow your speakers.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/26/13 06:03 PM

What Brian said.

I've heard M80's used as live band support speakers with hundreds of watts. As long as the power isn't distorted, you won't have a problem except for damaging your hearing.

But you're going to need a lot more power to get a lot louder. Have you considered subwoofer(s) instead?
Posted by: huskydave

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/26/13 06:15 PM

thanks guys, my next question is how much is too much? I can sell my amp now and get an easy $800. It was 1100 new but I would like to have a killer 7.1 setup down the road so Im thinking a killer 7.1 amp with preouts and a kick ass poweramp to match the m80's
what do you guys think? i have added subs in the past but then the mids and highs get unbalanced imo unless you have a lot of drivers.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/26/13 06:46 PM

How big an area are you trying to fill with sound?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/26/13 07:17 PM

huskeydave i've used a Krell FPB 300CX with a pair of m60's. this amp is capable of over 1200W per channel.... the M80's could take the power as well. Don't sweat the power, if it's clean, your good.... distortion an clipping is what kills drivers, not power....
Posted by: jakewash

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/26/13 09:30 PM

Check this out, it should put your fears to rest.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/research_PowerTestRoom
Posted by: JohnK

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/26/13 11:00 PM

Dave, there's no question that the M80s can take many hundreds of watts, but that your hearing can't(that may be what's "killer" about what you propose). 200 watts make a bit less than 3dB of difference in maximum loudness compared to 110. You should consider not less than 500 watts to accomplish your purpose.

Incidentally, if the sound levels between subs and speakers are properly calibrated by your receiver, they can't get "unbalanced", and it doesn't depend on the number of drivers.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/27/13 10:20 PM

On another related note, drivers do also have an excursion limit. With enough power the driver cannot push any further outward physically and you will hear something like a banging noise.

If you want stupid volume sound, get the biggest speakers and driver sizes you can (e.g. the 'concert' size speakers), however i've had my M60s hit 106 dB before (around 12' distance) and that is 'stupid' loud.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/27/13 10:46 PM

I've heard M80s hit 120dB+, with Parasound Halo 2 channel amps. Of course, it was a 7.1 setup with 5 M80s, 2 QS8s, and 1 EP600. The owner said that the Outlaw amps he had prior (5 channel+2 channel, I believe) did not work at the volume levels he wanted.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/27/13 11:07 PM

ken, i think i remeber the guy your talking about. he lived in california, and had a couple bangel cats?
Posted by: J. B.

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/28/13 07:10 AM

i've never measured the M80s alone, but these are a few results
i got when playing some movies at Reference Level.

the SPL meter was always set to "peak" and "fast", without filtering (flat response curve in the low frequencies), and the meter sitting at the usual listening distance on an armrest.

300: 118.8 dB
The Pacific: 118.7 dB
Bourne II: 117.0 dB
Bourne III: 118.2 dB
Super 8: 122.3 dB (Train crash, a heart stopper)
Super 8: 119.7 (bus turnover, mainly low frequencies here)
WOTW: 122.4 dB

the highest power output measured was the train crash;
i measured gross Watts used by the M80s amp, which came out to approximately 445 W/ch net going to the speakers after compensating for the amp's efficiency. this is an approximation only, as the Watt meter is not very precise.

under those conditions, the sound is always devoid of audible distortion, which was my principal goal when i bought the audio equipment a few years ago.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/28/13 10:07 AM

I didn't see Tron Legacy there. That was one of the loudest using bass that I've heard, so far in my system.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/28/13 10:45 AM

i don't have Tron Legacy, but the most intense - in time - loudness i heard in a movie is Terminator Salvation.
sounds over 105 dB are heard very very often during the movie, so much so that it is the only movie I've ever heard that desensitized my hearing - for about one hour - post viewing the movie.

i highly doubt i will ever watch that movie again, as i don't like to watch a movie or listen to music at levels below "realistic";
they lose too much of the "artistic intent".
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/28/13 10:56 AM

I tend to soften the sound more than I used to in an attempt to help lessen the damage to my hearing.
Posted by: troyd

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/28/13 02:12 PM

a few year back when I had my M80Ti and a Denon 3805 and a RS Sound Level meter I hit stupid crazy level of 116db in my 12x 17x8 room. Just to see how loud and a that I din't have the volume knob at full. I think the Denon 3805 is rated 120w 8ohm and 160w 4 ohm.
so 200w wouldn't get any louder, if and why you want it this loud is beyond me.;)

but, if you need it this loud, then as mentioned ^^^^ get a pair of Paraline's and a Paraline subs. these speakers are built for this and I have a set in my muusic room and they are wicked wicked clarity and volume.

http://www.yorkville.com/
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/28/13 06:29 PM

Yep Dennis (Tharkun) was the one with the Haloss, haven't talked to him in a long time...
Posted by: SBrown

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/28/13 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: troyd
a few year back when I had my M80Ti and a Denon 3805 and a RS Sound Level meter I hit stupid crazy level of 116db in my 12x 17x8 room. Just to see how loud and a that I din't have the volume knob at full. I think the Denon 3805 is rated 120w 8ohm and 160w 4 ohm.
so 200w wouldn't get any louder, if and why you want it this loud is beyond me.;)

but, if you need it this loud, then as mentioned ^^^^ get a pair of Paraline's and a Paraline subs. these speakers are built for this and I have a set in my muusic room and they are wicked wicked clarity and volume.

http://www.yorkville.com/



Fleetwood Mac had those same speakers at their concert in Vancouver and must have been a dozen or so on each side of the stage. Very Impressive to say the least, just hanging from the sky!
Posted by: Mad_Chesser

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/29/13 11:58 PM

Originally Posted By: J. B.
i've never measured the M80s alone, but these are a few results
i got when playing some movies at Reference Level.

the SPL meter was always set to "peak" and "fast", without filtering (flat response curve in the low frequencies), and the meter sitting at the usual listening distance on an armrest.

300: 118.8 dB
The Pacific: 118.7 dB
Bourne II: 117.0 dB
Bourne III: 118.2 dB
Super 8: 122.3 dB (Train crash, a heart stopper)
Super 8: 119.7 (bus turnover, mainly low frequencies here)
WOTW: 122.4 dB

the highest power output measured was the train crash;
i measured gross Watts used by the M80s amp, which came out to approximately 445 W/ch net going to the speakers after compensating for the amp's efficiency. this is an approximation only, as the Watt meter is not very precise.

under those conditions, the sound is always devoid of audible distortion, which was my principal goal when i bought the audio equipment a few years ago.


This makes me happy. I just purchased a pair of m80's last month and look forward to getting the rest of the system so I can achieve results like this.

I'll be buying an emotiva xpr-5 for my power needs.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/30/13 10:48 AM

Originally Posted By: J. B.
sitting at the usual listening distance on an armrest.


Can you define your usual sitting distance?
The dB measures need to be quantified with that measure otherwise at 1m i would say ho hum but at 20m i would say, holy crap on a cracker.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: How to crank M80's - 06/30/13 11:03 AM

the distance between front M80s and my ears is about 7 ft;
and between the front M80s and the SPL meter is about 6 ft.
All measurements are +- 1 inch.

I'll let you calculate the conversions.

the second photo from the top of this page will give you
an idea of the distances:
http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or in the axiom gallery, "HT room".

when i took this photo, the camera lens was exactly at eye position.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: How to crank M80's - 07/03/13 09:40 AM

Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Originally Posted By: J. B.
sitting at the usual listening distance on an armrest.


Can you define your usual sitting distance?
The dB measures need to be quantified with that measure otherwise at 1m i would say ho hum but at 20m i would say, holy crap on a cracker.



chesseroo, what would you say now that i've given you the details you asked for?
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: How to crank M80's - 07/09/13 10:58 PM

I would say feasible.
My measures with the M60s were at 10 to 12 feet (don't exactly recall now) and i pushed them with an AVR at the time (now i can use a dedicated amp if i choose).
So, M80s, larger speaker, plus closer distance to measure by half, and discrete amp, i can see the possibility of those SPLs being attained.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: How to crank M80's - 07/10/13 06:22 AM

i must say that those SPLs of mine have been taken while all speakers were active: 7.1 (minus a center front which i don't use).

also, the SPL meter used is a semi-pro model that is user calibrated.
the numbers i gave for wattage were much more approximations.
a good meter to measure that is costly, so it's not worth it for me to buy.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: How to crank M80's - 07/10/13 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By: J. B.
i must say that those SPLs of mine

<Axel>Whooahhh, oh oh, sweet SPLs of mine...</Axel>
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: How to crank M80's - 07/10/13 12:52 PM

No go, Peter.

You didn't come off smelling like a Rose on that one.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: How to crank M80's - 07/10/13 02:13 PM

Not enough syllables.