I'll start this post as MANY have: I've been lurking for months now, great forum. I was oh-so-close to purchasing a pair of M60s a few months ago for a stereo-only system, but choose the Paradigm Studio 60v2s instead. Now to my question
I have the joy of spending a friend's money!!! He is in the final stages of finishing his basement (~ 20'x15'x8' ceiling)), and has a budget as listed above. He is interested in 5.1, and requires all speakers and a receiver. I'm a Paradigm fan, as you can tell by my profile, but I'm more than a little intrigued by Axiom, and I figure what better way to audition them then with a friends money 'insert sarcasm'. His system will be 50/50 -- music/HT, and he is a fan of base with 'punch'. He has horrible taste in music... enjoys cranking Tool, Rage Against the Machine and the likes. I've tried to convince him of the joys of Diana Krawl, Norah Jones and Harry Connick Jr to no avail... so, I have a few systems in mind with a Paradigm/NAD combination but I'm curious to hear from the Axiom forum regulars. Any and all suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

I'd suggest that he get the Epic Grand Master setup - and most would suggest you sub out (ha! a pun) the Axiom subwoofer for an HSU STF-2... I've heard you kind of pay thru the nose to get those in Canada, so you might actually just want to stick to the package deal.

That leaves you $1000 CDN for the receiver, which should probably be OK.

If you think he likes his music more laid back (which might be a bad choice of words considering his taste in music) and want to save some cash, then you might suggest the Epic Master. By "laid back" I mean the mid-bass would be more pronounced - making it sound richer and probably a little "punchier" sounding.

Either way, you really can't go wrong. From reading many reviews on this site, everyone seems to agree that the Axioms are tonally very similar to the Paradigms. A friend of mine has one of the top-end Paradigms (can't remember model #) - and the tweeter sound is indeed very similar. My Axioms are definitely more laid-back than his (I have the M40) - but they cost about 1/3.

I personally like the laid-back, or "rich" sound of the M40s.. (don't even need a subwoofer for just music) but I listen to a lot of vinyl, and anything with a tinny sound just amplifies surface noise. I'm not saying that the Axiom would sound tinny, I just don't want a speaker that gives anymore emphasis to that upper mid spectrum. I am dying to audition some M22's... which I probably will one day soon.

Well... I hope that helped.

I agree that that package would be good, but I'm concerned that you say he likes to "really crank" his music. Bookshelf speakers don't hold up to extreme volume playing nearly as well as a tower. His taste in music may also benefit from a speaker that's not quite as detail oriented.

Having said that, I'd recommend the following:

M50ti
VP100
QS4
Hsu STF-2

As far as a receiver goes, any of the usual suspects would work fine. Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, H/K...

Good luck!

ps - Curious...did you get a chance to hear the M60ti's before purchasing your Paradigm towers?

Thanks for the quick responces... keep'em'comin.
I like the system(s) nowave suggests, I think for home theater the bookshelves would work great. I'm interested in spiffnme's suggestion in going with the M50ti as mains. I've very rarely seen anyone recomend these.

re: "Curious...did you get a chance to hear the M60ti's before purchasing your Paradigm towers?"... no I did not. I was/am hesitant to purchase something as personal (dare I say intimate) such as speakers without hearing them. I ended up getting a great deal on new Studio 60v2 when the v3 was released.

The M60's are usually the speaker of choice for most tower buyers, because of their amazing clarity. But if your friend is going to be cranking stuff like Tool, and Rage Against the Machine, then something a tad more subdued, like the M50's would probably be a better fit.

I asked about the Paradigms because I had the chance to hear a pair of the new v3's and was suprisingly unimpressed. It could very well have been something with the setup I heard though, as I've always heard good things about Paradigm.

I know these guys tend to disparage the Axiom subs but I have 0 complaints with my EP350. It can rattle the whole house, plays music well, and has alot of what I think these guys call "slam". I would like it better if it wasn't a squat black cube. The SVS cylinder sub with the wood veneer would be my dream sub, but only from an aesthetic standpoint. The EP350 is no slouch.

Thanks for the note on the Axiom sub... It would be nice to enjoy the saving of ordering an entire system from Axiom. Maybe a 'road-trip' to the factory is in order: I'm still hesitant to spend several thousand $ (even if it's a friends money) on speakers without auditioning them.

I see your point on the M50. Could go with M50, VP100 and QS8 for ~ $1,700 (if I can get over the 'not hearing them' issue), leaves me with plenty for a decent sub and a receiver. Or would I be better off upgrading the center to the VP150 and staying with QS4?

Re: the Paradigm v3s, I too was unimpressed by them, I much prefer the v2s. I understand the v3s were 'voiced' more for HT (or so my dealer states) and I've read many reports of Paradigm fans preferring the old v2s to the new release.

Since budget is not a big issue, why not get the m80's. I also listen to some whom you mentioned along with Etta James, Diana Washington, Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters Etc... as well as Tool, RATM, System o/a Down, Classical, Jazz and so on at quite loud levels.
It all sounds amazing along with many dvd's. I did install 2ohm resistors in both sets of tweeters to smooth out the highs.

DD, another option might be to buy the M60tis, VP150 & QS8s and forget about the sub for now. That should come out to a little less than $2000 with a package deal. You're friend will have a great system (there's plenty of bass from the M60tis) that will last him a long time. The remaining $1000 would be enough to pick up a good quality receiver. Then a little while down the road when he can save up some more dough, he can add a sub to the setup and have a damn fine ht.

I agree that a sub is not completely essential. Before I bought my Axioms and SVS subwoofer, I had Paradigm Monitor 9s without a sub. I didn't really miss the sub at all with music. And since I had never owned a sub, I didn't miss it with movies, either.

Get the best you can get with your money. If it turns out you don't have enough left for a sub, then know you can always buy one later.

Massive ditto on sidvicious and pmbuko -- and besides, with that config (with M80s or 60s as mains), there will be a nest egg fund to jumpststart getting a sub. But your friend can go without one at first, which will give him a better base of comparison anyway, and the enjoyment factor on music will be tremendous either way.

I'll echo the above.

Ditto here. The sub is a really nice thing to have, but not essential right away and can certainly be added later. If you dilute your start-up system to divert $$ for a sub, at SOME point, you'll be unhappy with the compromise made by saving initial $$ on the other speakers. That will eventually become an expensive itch to scratch.

If you opt for the M80s (BTW, the M60s should be well beyond adequate for you), there may be an increase in the amount you must spend for a receiver since you will need to assure that it can drive 4 ohm speakers.

wow...guys, in this case I have to whole heartedly disagree. If he uses this system 50/50 HT/music, then he really should get a sub. Adding a good sub to my system was by FAR one of the biggest improvements in my system.

While I do agree that the sub can make a huge difference, I just think if it was me, I'd go the 'minus-the-sub' route. Otherwise he's initially compromising on the front speakers or the sub, and possibly both. Then a year down the road when he's saved up some more coin, he'll undoubtedly be bit by the 'upgraditis/what-if bug'. He'll be left wanting to upgrade his mains and it will cost him more money in the end than if he'd just waited a bit on the sub. Fight the disease.

I agree with spiffnme. Especially if he's looking for some "punch" in his setup, he'll want a sub to throw out those low frequencies. I think many people look forward to those in a high end system. Without that, I believe he'll be disappointed.

Tell him to sell his wife's car, and buy an HSU and an SVS...

Michael

I don't think he's skimping at all with M50's and a VP100 up front. From every owner I've heard from the M50's are great. They're just not quite as detailed as the M60's, which is this guys case, sounds like it would be appropriate.

M50s, vp150, qs8s, some kind of decent sub, and a $300-$500 receiver would be far from a compromise. I'm pretty sure that would shake the house and destroy all of his HTIB buddies. I think that is right at $3000 Canadian, eh?

Great discussion... I think a sub is a MUST for HT, and based on his musical taste, I think the M60ti may not be the right choice. The one thing I found when putting together my 'music only' system was that the Studio 60s are much less forgiving of poorly recorded CDs. There are many CDs in my library that I enjoy more on my Monitor 7s. As such, I think I'll suggest the following Axiom based system to him.
1. M50ti/VP150/QS8/Paradigm ps1000 sub --> $2,350.

Add ~$800 for a decent receiver and he's just slightly over budget.

Thanks guys... much appreciated, and feel free to critique my selection.

You went with BigWill's advice - always a good choice.