I was reading the AVS Forums and saw a post that basically recommended the:
Epic Master Home Theater (minus sub) combined with one of HSU's impending subs as a good quality speaker setup.

Assuming that some of the folks here probably have these speakers, could anyone recommend an appropriate reciever?

I'm fairly new to all this if it's not obvious enough...

Thanks,

Nick

What's your budget for the receiver? That's the first thing we need to know. The Epic Master set can take some juice.

I'm sort of in the same boat as you. I have started shopping for a new mid-range (under $1,100) receiver myself. I currently have a Kenwood VR-409, which is basically a standard B&M type receiver. It's decent though; it'll hold me over until I decide what I want to get.

And until I save some moolah!

I'm not sure. I wouldn't imagine I'll spend more than $800-$1200 for a reciever. The truth is, like most men I'd love to have the fanciest of everything. And I greatly enjoy music & movies. I would say I have a fairly keen eye and ear as well. But I don't think I'm the sort to really get into the hardcore equipment, setup, and configuration because I have too many other interests that strain my budget and time.

My goal will be to have a good quality plasma TV, with a pleasant sounding music/movie setup in a cool to hang out in rec room in my eventual house.

I'm not even sure what all I'll need to be honest.

My list so far:

Speakers
Receiver
DVD Player
Plasma TV
HDTV receiver for my Directv
Assorted Appropriate Wires

I don't even know what else I'll need. I'm probably quite naive.

-Nick

Well, you're already on the right track; you're asking questions. I ask a ton of 'em!

I'm the type that needs to know all the positives and negatives about anything before I buy it. I hate surprises. I like to know exactly what to expect and what not to.

$1,200 will get you a nice receiver. You don't need to spend that much though to have something nice that you won't grow out of in a month.

Configuration and proper setup is PARAMOUNT to any successful music and/or Home Theater experience.

Generally speaking, a $1,000 system that's been properly tuned and calibrated will sound better than a $3,000 system that got ripped out of it's shipping cartons, hastily wired up and turned on. I'm sure others will agree with me on that.

You have to invest not only the money, but the TIME to set it all up correctly. Even for a total neophyte, calibrating a monitor and a surround sound setup shouldn't take anymore than a few hours.

Plus, the knowledge you gain is priceless and an invaluable resource that you'll turn to again and again as your interest in the hobby grows.

One last thing. For maximum movie enjoyment, you NEED a sub.

Sorry about the confusion, I certainly meant to get a sub of some sort. It's just the configuration mentioned on the other forum included all components that are part of the Epic Master setup, minus the sub & then including one of the new models (presuming they turn out to be nice) of the HSU Research sub family.

Basically buy the other pieces individually, skip the sub, and buy one of the HSU sub's.

I also certainly intend to do configuration with the setup when the time comes. I wouldn't just hook it up and be done with it. I bought a Sony WEGA and have never given it the attention it deserves. I know it could give an even better picture if I bought some configuration dvd's as opposed to the tweaking I've done on my own. I won't be so lazy this time! I just want to keep things relatively simple in level of technology because I know otherwise I will end up with WAY MORE than I'll ever need. And I'll end up get out of a sensible dollar/enjoyment ratio.

Does my list of equipment seem sufficient? Are there other things I'll need? I guess possible a CD player although I presume I can get a good DVD/CD combo that provides good quality to both.

What about the advantages of 5.1, 6.1, 7.1? Is there anything I should look for? Obviously the setup I'm looking at would be 5.1 right? That package has a center, two fronts, two surrounds, and a sub. What would be the configuration of a 6.1? Is that a rear center? What about 7.1? Is that two rears?

Perhaps I should just spend time looking online and not bothering you guys.

Thanks for the help so far!

-Nick

That price range puts you squarely in the realm of the Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver. You won't be disappointed.

Yamaha, as already mentioned and Denon 3803 would be great buys, as well as the Pioneer Elite 55txi, which can be found online for around $1100 and would also be an amazing reciever.

Forgot about Rotel, great products also.

Nick,

In addition to the Yamaha that Peter recommended, I suggest you look at the Pioneer Elite 53TX and 55TXi receivers. Their street prices are within your budget -- the latter comes with the FireWire/i.Link digital connection for the SACD/DVD-A players, in case you plan to get such a "universal" player instead of a plain DVD player. At any rate, these Pioneer and Yamaha receivers feature the automatic room/speaker EQ system, which I think is truly valuable.

Also, I would dutifully suggest that you explore the possibility of front projection instead of a plasma display. I was in your position 10 months ago, but eventually decided to buy a front projector plus a 120" screen for our "living-room HT" -- I am really glad I went down this route. Today's front projection system costs no more than a plasma, and will give you a much larger screen with a more film-like, excellent image quality. The entire system really feels like a home "theater." The only caveat is, if you want to watch it during daytime, you have to be able to sufficiently darken the room.

once in it, you'll never look at that ratio again. remember tweaking your 1st car, well get ready 'cause here you'll go again. i thought the same thing too.
dan

Haha..that's reassuring. Perhaps I should give up before I begin.

If I was still single I would tend to agree with you, but even with my wife being as supportive as she is, I'm not betting on things getting too out of hand. I have too many other expensive hobbies that I'm unwilling to sacrifice.

I know just enough to not buy stuff at a major electronics store, but not so much that I'll make the time to get too hardcore.

In fact to be honest, I get more enjoyment out of the research, learning, and then getting kick-ass (relative term) equipment while others stupidly overpay for lesser grade than anything.

Perhaps the real hobby is purchase research :-)

Do the new Pioneers peform bass management on the 5.1 analog inputs?

So, Nick, tell us about those other expensive hobbies. We're always eager to learn from each other (and hijack any given thread)

I really liked your observation about "Purchase Research"!

You're dead-on about 5.1 v 6.1 v 7.1. Many people are absolutely delighted with a high-quality 5.1 system, especially using the much-loved Axiom QS8's as surrounds. Implementing more speakers may make sense depending upon the size and configration of you room. However, there is very little native source material for 6.1 and none (I believe) for 7.1; typically, the 6th and 7th channels are synthesized or matrixed by the receiver.

There are many fine receivers in the sub-$1000 range. Shop for features. Listen to Sushi about the MCACC/YPAO and front projection stuff.

You might want to leave some money available for a universal remote control.

I purchased Axiom M60's not long ago and could not be happier with them. They are rich, smooth and detailed beyond my expectations. And the depth and breadth of soundstage they convey reminded me just how glorious "stereo" can be.

Hmm..other hobbies. Well, I'm an avid golfer. Wife even caddies in my tournaments...As I said she's supportive. I guess that's really my only other expensive hobby. But as sports go it's not the cheapest.

I'm certainly learning a lot here and other boards and am looking forward to ending up with something good. I have to admit the boards here are confusing as the thread gets choppy with people responding to different posts. I almost missed some other suggestions because it wasn't numerical posts.

Anyway, my list of receivers seems to be growing:

Yamaha RX-V2400
Denon 3803
Pioneer Elite 53TX or 55TXi
NAD T752 or 762

I'm interested in this being a nice setup so that it will play music well and also movies TV. Do any of these receivers stand out for this? I hope to have the romper room in the basement so music while the pool table is being used is a requirement!

I'll respond in the other "branch" of the thread about the video

-Nick

I'm certainly willing to consider a front projection setup. As I mentioned in another part of the thread I'll probably do this in the basement so I could certainly manage the light issue. I don't know much about them however so I guess it'll give me something else to research. Are they suitable for all viewing formats? I would probably do a fair amount of PS2 gaming on this setup. Would that be a problem?

Also, I guess I'll have to figure out the SACD & DVA-A stuff. I'm not really familiar with it yet although I believe that DVD-A is DVD audio right? God only knows how I'm going to address this issue...I figured I'd be fine with a normal high quality DVD player and get a CD player seperately. As I said I'm a newbie.

Oh..I guess these posts are in numerical order. For some reason I just missed a couple...oops! At least I feel confident I won't miss good info now. Other than being an idiot of course.

Curtis, I don't think so. The receiver doesn't do A/D and D/A conversions on the 5.1 analog inputs. I believe all you can tweak on these inputs is the channel level, as in the case in my 45TX.

Nick, if you're willing to spend that much, my view is that only receivers providing automatic room and speaker equalization should be considered. That would mean the Pioneer 53TX or 55TXi and the Yamaha 2400 which have already been mentioned.

SACD and DVD Audio are for high resolution music. I love DVD Audio and am waiting to have enough extra cash for a Denon 2200 to be able to finally play SACD. They are both excellent formats and worth the investment if you love music. The sound quality is usually much better than CD or vinyl, while also often being in full 5.1 sound as well as stereo.

Also I do not know about the Pioneer and Yamaha recievers, but Denon has an excellent feature called 5/6/7 channel stereo that turns stereo music which would normally only come out of the front two speakers and adds the other speakers making the same noise as the front. It is a similar effect to having front speakers and rear speakers in a car. It is an excellent feature for when you are hanging out with friends playing pool and want room filling sound beyond the limitations of Stereo.

So that technology will actually configure the speakers in the room for me? So I wouldn't need one of those sound meters to configure it myself? Or would that just handle the basics and I'd need to tweak it myself?

It sounds like an impressive feature.

Last night I'd read a lot of good things about the NAD T752 & 762...the cool thing about this is when it comes down to it there appears to be a lot of quality options. The downside is it appears it'll be tough to make a choice. No wonder you guys keep upgrading!

-Nick

if you find a post you want to follow, the easiest way is to click on the "flat" word you see located on the upper right portion of the message, then it flows in order.
dan

Yes Nick, it adjusts for speaker levels and distances and goes a considerable way toward equalizing room and speaker response variations from flat. A sound level meter wouldn't be needed for the set-up, since it's automatic, but it's good to have one anyway to see what the sound level actually is.

No, any "tweaking" is likely to make things worse. This is despite the fact that on some other boards I've seen comments about how when they checked the auto-calibration by doing it manually with the meter, the auto was only "off" by a dB or so, based on the highly dubious assumption that their manual calibration was the more accurate one.

I certainly wouldn't argue with that. If it's good technology and well implimented I have no doubt it's more capable than myself. 1) because I'm not all that familiar with all this and 2) because you'd be eliminating human error.

If I was looking at speakers from the Master theatre package are those going to do one of these receivers justice? Or should I be looking at the grand master or higher? As I've said I'm determined not to make this into a "I gotta have the best!" thing, but I want to make sure all the pieces compliment each other.

-Nick

Yes, Nick, I own the Pioneer 45TX, the previous model replaced by the 53TX and 55TXi. I tell you that its MCACC auto-calibration/EQ feature does wonders to your setup. Initially, I tried to manually tweak the parameters set by the receiver (yes, the system is so flexible that it allows manual alterations on top of the automatic adjustments on all level/delay/EQ parameters). But soon I decided that I could not beat the automatic setting.

The MCACC (and Yamaha's YPAO) audibly improves the sound quality of your system -- especially in the department of multi-channel imaging/soundstaging, as well as timbre matching among the main channels. You need to try it in your own room in order to really appreciate these benefits.

This is a convincing recommendation. I will definately have to hear these two recievers.

Do you have any advice on front projectors? I've been researching all morning trying to read about them and have already learned a lot. It looks like to get a "very good" one it'll definately be more than the panasonic commercial grade Plasma (I'd guess 5k instead of around 3k?). But as you say it's a bigger picture and as long as it does PS2 gaming I believe I'd be happier with the larger screen.

Have you any suggestions on models, sites, or reviews I should read or stay away from?

Thanks to everyone so far you've been very helpful so far.

A 3k plasma means that it is not HD compatible, it is only EDTV. It only does 480p resolution. You need to get a HDTV which can do 1080i, 720p, and 480p resolution. That is why you can not find a similarly priced projector. The resolution of the EDTV's are pretty poor compared to HDTV. If I am wrong and the TV is HDTV, then you are getting an exceptional deal and I want to know where you are getting it.

But trust me, HDTV is the way to go, no questions.

That is true...The Plasma I was looking at was only the EDTV. I'd actually been leaning that way (in that case) because I read it was actually better for low grade signal which we both know I'll get most of the time on TV.

In the projectors case I'm still learning what will be HDTV and what will be EDTV equivelant.

On another note, I read this article here:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/formats.htm

and I'm not sure what to think of it. I definately would want my projector to do PS2 games and watch a relative amount of standard TV. Does that mean I should be looking for a 4:3 native projector?

-Nick

Nick,

For ~$3K budget, you have several excellent choices for 720p-class 16:9 LCD projectors, including the brand new Panasonic AE500/L500u and Sony HS20 (which should be available in the US now or in the very near future), or XGA-class DLP projectors, such as the NEC HT1000 and Optoma H56. If you stretch the budget a bit, you can have a 720p, 16:9-native DLP machine such as the Optoma H76.

Even if you watch lots of standard TV programs and play 4:3-aspect games, I would still go for a 16:9-native projector. After all, you will want higher resolutions when watching 16:9 materials (and beyond). Why "waste" 25% of screen pixels and lumens when you need them the most? Just that, at this time, the 16:9-native DLP projectors are still fairly expensive. But as I said above, there are excellent 16:9 LCD choices available.

As for the screen, one of the most economical choices is the manual pulldown models. Mine is a Da-Lite 8'x10' top-of-the-line manual pulldown with what's called "High Power" screen fabric. I had Da-Lite custom-mask it down to a 120"-diagonal 16:9 viewing area. It costed a little over $600 including shipping. Some pictures of my setup are posted here at the AVSforum (hehe... thanks for the opportunity to link to these pics again!).

Perhaps I misrepresented my insanity. I'm more than willing to spend more $$ on a setup that will be good for a while. Does this mean I'm willing to spend 25 grand on a projector? No...

would I spend the money on something like this:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq_pe8700.htm

if I read enough good things about it?...yes.

The good thing is it's available for a lot less than the MSRP (of course) and I read on the same site that its chip the HD2 DLP is being replaced by the HD2+ so that means the price of these level projectors should continue to come down.

I'm still trying to find more reviews on this projector and ones that might be like it. Any suggestions on this level?

I'm of course getting myself into the deep end

Thanks,

Nick

Nick, I guess you hit it right on the nail at that price range, especially if you can get the BenQ with the HD2+ chips. I don't think other new projectors with HD2+ are coming down to this price level just yet. Other "usual" suspects in this price range include the Sharp Z10000, Optoma H76, InFocus 7200/Toshiba MT8U. Also, perhaps you can get some discount on the Yahama DPX-1000 or Marantz 12S2 (being replaced by the 12S3 with HD2+).

Anyway, I am fairly confident that you will be glad to go for a front projector rather than a plasma or a big-box RPTV at this price range, especially given that you will set it up in the basement.

That's the plan (to put it in the basement). Sorry for the confusion about the HD2+. What I meant was that by the time I get this setup (maybe in the next few months) the HD2+ will be replacing the HD2's so companies such as BenQ will be replacing their PE8700 with a newer model with a newer chip. This means the older PE8700 will be even more affordable. I don't know of any plans for the 8700's to get the new chip. And certainly not at the cheaper price I would be looking at.

I'll investigate those other projectors if I should expect them to be similar quality.

This quality projector could be overkill having not seen the different ones to compare. I will have to get out somewhere and get a feel for just "how good" these are. Obviously you know a lot about them and felt I might not need this much.

-Nick

The quality of projectors as a function of their prices is just like that for other AV gears. When you go above a certain price point, the law of diminishing returns will certainly kick in. But unlike the BS/hype-filled world of "high-end" audio, I can assure you that up to the ~$20K range, you can always find a better projector when you pay a higher price. But the differences in image quality is by no means "night and day" or "jaw dropping" at first glance. Today's HT projectors, even the $1K-$2K models, are all darn good.

What I would suggest as the initial step in projector selection are:

(1) Most importantly, go out and watch a couple of reputable HT projectors (not data projectors) in action, in a dealer showroom or a friend's house, where they have a good ambient-light control.

Ambient light really kills the image quality, so the dealer doesn't have a good darkened room, don't even bother to stay. Decide how much you enjoy the FP as compared to plasmas or RPTVs. Don't forget to bring your own favorite DVDs with you -- for example, certain dark scenes in LOTR have been regarded as a good benchmark.

(2) If you feel that the FP is the way to go, determine, sooner than later, whether a DLP or LCD projector is for you.

DLP projectors are still superior than LCDs in the absolute contrast ratio, quality of blacks, and shadow details, although LCDs are steadily improving in these aspects, too. Also, DLP pixels have higher "fill-ratios," resulting in smoother, even more film-like images (some LCD projectors suffer from the "screendoor" and/or "fixed patter noise" artifacts, although they are mostly a non-issue in the latest 720p-class machines). In return, some people see the nasty "rainbow artifacts" or color-breaking when watching high-contrast scenes on DLP projectors. Many people don't see them at all (unfortunately, I do). Also, some people are bothered by "dithering artifacts" seen in shadow parts of DLP images.

Once you decide on the DLP versus LCD issue, the choice is pretty straight forward for a given price range.