I was wondering what the current experience has been with the "factory seconds." Would any of you care to comment what the blemish or imperfection was on whatever speaker you purchased? Would you purchase the "seconds" again if you had it to do over?
What say the tribe?
Thanks In Advance.
The Rat.
bug:
Interesting thread! Thanks!
The current discount is 10%, not 15% mentioned in the posts. I wonder if this is indicative of the minimum amount of blemish?
Anyone else care to comment on the current situation?
The Rat.
you get 10% off on FO items, and if you buy 5 units (pairs counting as one) you get the extra %5 "system" discount.
You can see what I have below, and so far, in 4 months, I have ony been able to find one tiny scratch on the Bottom of one speaker and a slight (smaller than a dime) discoloration on the Back of another.
Most people will likely never figure out why these are sold as "B" stock.
I bought all Factory Outlet and never saw a blemish on ANY of them!
I'm still looking. Now, what did I do with the magnifying glass.
I would do it again in a second, have yet to find a single blemish on my Axiom's. Also, when referring others I also recommend this method of purchasing if your not in a "need it yesterday" hurry.
You get 10% from the outlet, and then if you buy 5 or more items you get another 5%, that is where the 15% is coming from.
Randy
m60's vp150 ep350 4-qs8's
denon 2805
factory seconds are brand new speakers with a defect that generally people can't find.
i'd recommend buying from the factory outlet only, and not the regular page, because you basically get the same speakers for 10% off.
Unless, of course, you want a custom color!
And if everyone ordered from the factory outlet, wait times would go up into the "years."
Bren R.
Noooo... I just think the factory outlet would disappear!
I have both new and factory outlet speakers from Axiom. I was able to locate what I believe to be the blemishes on the speakers. . .some I'm not quite sure if it could be considered a blemish. I have gotten 4 speakers from the outlet and the most significant blemish was a tiny push-in on the back corner of a VP100. Once in place nobody would ever notice, and come to think of it this could have happened during shipping and it wasn't even the blemish that Axiom had seen.
So to sum up. I have NO regrets of buying the factory outlet speakers and I am very particular about how things look.
Same here. My M22s are from the outlet and my VP100 is from the main store. I could only find a blemish on one of my M22s, and that's just a "gluing error" about halfway down the inside of a vortex post, so it's virtually invisible.
Very interesting, but we still only have a small sample set, yet everyone is very satisfied.
Anyone out there who is not satisfied with the blemished speakers or are you concerned about getting flamed?
Just Curious.
The Rat.
One of the nice things about this board is that "reasoned" criticism is welcomed; you only get flamed for talking about controversial topics like (ducking) speaker break-in
I bought my mains and center (M60, M2, VP100) from the regular store and my surrounds (QS8) from the factory outlet. One of the QS8s had what seemed to be a thumbnail-type indent in an edge of the speaker -- enough that I would have been "saddened" if not upset in a normal order but given a discount my thought was "who cares, I'm hangin' it way up on the wall anyways".
The factory outlet isn't the answer for everyone because sometimes you do get noticeable (albeit tiny) cosmetic defects that you might not want if you have a "visual showpiece" kind of system but for speakers which aren't going to be "front and center" I don't think anyone has seen a blemish they can't live with.
Having said that, the FO seems to be at its best when the extra 10% lets you get the speaker you really wanted instead of the speaker you can afford
I think the biggest concern for most is the wait time, not defects. Because if there are any found at all, they're always small.
The wait time, though, can be painful!
It's like this: You spend so much time trying to decide on the purchase regarding brands and lines and suggestions and budgets and anticipation of sound (make no mistake, even if you're checking out speakers in a showroom, they're going to sound different when they're in your room). After deciding and redeciding, if you pull the trigger on "A Stock" Axioms you get them almost before you have time to prepare for them. But if you choose to be fiscally responsible and go "B Stock" the significant savings means doing some waiting.
In the meantime, you start hanging out on the boards here more and more, and you read how people rediscovered their music collection and movies never sounded better, and you become a part of the little family here, and everybody loves their speakers so much......only your speakers are 4, 6 or 8 weeks off!
It's been many, many years since I had that "kid before Christmas" feeling that I had while waiting for my "B" Axioms! Others have been fine with it, re-vamping the new HT room in the meantime. I guess I had been planning on upgrading for so, so long, knowing I pulled the trigger made me want them ASAP!
I purchased my M40's through the FO, and cannot find a single blemish on the finish. The only thing I noticed was the Axiom logo MAY be tilted slightly...about 1 degree. (but that could be the angle of my head!!)
Also of note...when I purchased my other speakers (not from the FO), the VP100 arrived in a damaged box. I opened the box to discover that the VP100 had a slight dent on the bottom rear...nothing that ever would be seen. A quick call to Axiom's "Wonderful Customer Service Department" and they immediately gave me the choice of a new one, or a discount. Being the el-cheapo that I am, I took the cash and ran!!
I have owned my m80's for three months and have yet to find any blemish even though I purchased them as factory seconds.
Perhaps using the term "B Stock" sounds better.
Factory seconds always reminds me of those sewing mishaps where you find an outlet clothing store selling jeans with one 28" leg and one 36" leg or a sweatshirt with an extra arm sewn between the shoulderblades.
Bren R.
I agree, I think using the term "Factory Seconds" sounds like refurbished, which these are not. I would say "B-Stock" or the current "Factory Outlet" sounds more accurate.
I really appreciate everyones comments, I really do. I hope that others continue to post their experience as they read this thread. I find it most interesting that no one has had second thoughts about the "seconds" that they have purchased.
I don't have any small children to worry about their bashing the speakers. My youngest is a junior in high school. While I am tempted to purchase the "seconds," I am leaning, somewhat, toward the "firsts." With the new 61" HD TV, stand, eventually a new HD receiver and other purchases that I am making, the $120 isn't a big % of the money I'll be spending. I've always wanted a "first class" HD system so now is my chance.
I'm the type of guy that if I had no luck, I would have better luck. If one of the "second" speakers at the factory had a very noticible gash, I'd be the one to get it.
I have several weeks before I'm going to make up my mind, so I'll monitor this thread and see what others may say.
Thanks again.
The Rat.
My wife put the halt on any FO talk-she said that the degredation of My nervous system, coupled with a corresponding trauma suffered by her in direct responce to my activities during those long, long...looonng weeks of continualy checking and waiting for that "Golden E-Mail". The loss of sleep. The incessant nervous snacking. (You guys know the drill) These things could never be outweighed by a simple 10%! Hey, at my age a couple weeks could be a significant percentage of what time I have left!!
(Three days alone, was Murder!!!)
Rich.
A final note. I talked to Alan about the seconds before I ordered and he put my mind at ease. And I don't know. . . somehow you feel like you got away with something when you got your beautiful speakers for less than others. . . but maybe that's just me. I do love getting great deals.
But then again Axioms are a great deal regardless and three days is a lot faster than a couple of weeks. (All my FO orders were supposed to take 6 weeks but none did. . .all were about 2 weeks which made me smile REAL BIG.
Another vote for the factory outlet. Other than the wait time, there's really nothing wrong with them. Nothing at all.
with FO im about 99%sure if you are unhappy with the blemish you can send them back for non FO.
Sorry fellas.I bow my head in shame.B stock it is.
I was wondering if the factory seconds included customer returns. Brent @ Axiom responded to my email saying that returns were not resold.
If they don't resell them, then what do they do with them?
Seems like it would be a huge waste to destroy them, but stranger things have happened.
The Rat.
The last word we had was that they are given/sold to employees for personal use or for gifts to friends. This may, or may not, be the policy today.
Here is a quote from Alan Lofft regarding this subject.
____________________________________________________________
"Returned units are sold at discount to Axiom employees, family, and relatives.
No returned units are put into B stock."
Regards,
Alan Lofft
Axiom Resident Expert
____________________________________________________________
Boy would i like to be a Family/relative of an Axiom employee right now
Yeah!
Dwight Ontario must have the highest per capita ratio of Axioms-to-households in all of of North America.
But then again, when you consider how great these speakers are, I'll bet they just don't get that many returns!
Well folks, after considering all the comments and my personal preferences, I opted for the M80s from the "A" store. I placed my order earlier this morning.
By the way, I was watching NASCAR on FOX last night, and the VP-150 really sounded good when they cranked it up.
Still thinking about what to do about the subwoofer. Thus far, I'm leaning toward a SVS. My subwoofer died a couple of weeks ago and I'm using my son's "spare." After I get the M80s and listen to them with his subwoofer for a while, I'll make a decision. At least, that is the current plan.
Thanks for all of the comments.
The Rat.
Congrats Bernard on your m80 purchase. What color and when are they arriving?
Congrats on the 80s, and I doubt you will have any regrets on paying the additional cost over B stock once you have the 80s up and running. Waiting only a few days is far better than waiting weeks.
I ordered the black oak ones. Black seems to go with most everything and we will, most probably, be moving to a lake house in a couple of years. I thought seriously about one of the other colors, but I asked the wife what color I should get (showed her the options) when I bought the VP-150. She wanted it in black. So, black it is.
I don't have a shipping date just yet. I'll probably get that tomorrow during business hours.
The Rat.
What's that old saying... you can have it in any color as long as its black.
The speakers usually take two business days to your door. You can probably expect them tuesday, maybe wednesday. You got that digital camera ready for pics right?
Looking forward to hearing more.
Michael
Just to let you guys know I received my factory direct VP150 and found nothing wrong with them. Maybe I should of purchased my M80s facotry direct haha.
Congratualations!
I just couldn't see spending that much on a pair of speakers and not getting the "A" series. I thought about it long and hard. Waiting a few weeks wasn't the issue.
But, that's just me.
Now, watch, I'll get them installed and my grandson will knock into them with something.
Oh well!!!!
The Rat.
I received email today that my M80s were shipped. I suspect that I should have them by Thursday or Friday.
The Rat.
Actually your very correct, your grandson will probably put a bigger nick in the finish than you would have ever found with a magnifying glass
just joking. Anyway, you'll be happy with them I'm sure.
In reply to:
By the way, I was watching NASCAR on FOX last night, and the VP-150 really sounded good when they cranked it up.
All right! It's good to know that I ain't the only redneck that uses the Axiom gear to watch the *good ol' boy's* run.
Darn night races, I fell asleep and missed the finish. Darlington did look great under the lights though.
Rat, congrats on the 80s, I believe you'll really like them and I'd also bet you'll get them earlier than Friday.
In reply to:
I fell asleep and missed the finish. Darlington did look great under the lights though.
Just thought I'd let you know you weren't the only one to fall asleep before it ended. I love the night races but I wish they could wrap it all up in 3 hours or less.
Unreal, at the moment we are working 7 days a week so I went in to to work Sunday morning to find out what happened and nobody was able to make it 'till the end. Oh well!
In reply to:
I ain't the only redneck that uses the Axiom gear to watch the *good ol' boy's* run.
Hmm... I just saw this t-shirt last night and laughed out loud (no, really, I didn't "LOL", I actually laughed!)
My mom's a NASCAR fan. Never did understand the driving around in circles in something like a production car in name only. I think I'd "get" Super Street or Street Stock or Open Stock racing a lot more.
G**D*****! That is NOT a Monte Carlo... that's a rollcage, engine and fibreglas... THE HEADLIGHTS are PAINTED ON!!!
Bren R.
Next you're going to tell us that Pro Wrestling isn't real either.
NASCAR.. non athletic sport centered around rednecks
The acronym fits!
*ducks*
hey, bren started it.
bren and thasp- and i really thought you guys were a little more *sharp*, than to pull out the "rednecks" and "driving around in circles" jokes.
i hold your opinions with very little weight, cause i presume that neither of you have actually BEEN to a NASCAR event. while i think you re more than welcome to have your opinions, i think you might outta try and actually experience it, before you make such harsh judgements.
being at the track on raceday, is one of the more exciting and tantilizing events i have ever experienced. the roar of the engines, the smell of gas and rubber, the sheer speed of the cars whipping by you at 190mph. it truly does excite all 5 senses. and i firmly believe that even the most vocal of NASCAR hater, would actually have a pretty good time if he or she actually went to a race.
in the meantime, this hillbilly-redneck, will still be watching, still be cheering on my drivers, and still laughing at those that turn up their nose.
on second thought, just stay at home.. it leaves more seats for the real fans!!
bigjohn
Hiya BigJohn
First off I think Bren and Thasp had a bit of humour in their posts but perhaps it didn't come off as intended.
I will say that I enjoy all forms of motorsports, including NASCAR. Ovals always get bad "press" with the average person as they look very easy to race on. It's interesting to note that even experienced road racers have a very hard trying to adapt to oval racing. It might even make you think it's harder than it looks.
Your got a great track in Texas and incredible fan support as well, I'd love to go there to experience a race.
NASCAR is thinking about staging a race in Canada, apparently in Montreal at the F1/CHAMP car track (see it's not all ovals). To pull that one off Montreal would have to cancel the CHAMP Car race to free up a spot for NASCAR. I understand that they would have done it IF they had been offered a NEXTEL Cup race. All NASCAR would offer was a BUSCH race so the deal fell through.
Another possibility is a road course race at Mosport in Ontario.
Andf then there's drag racing. The engineering to get a car to go to 330mph in under four and a half seconds is mind boggling. Then again it's all in a straight line so how hard can it be/
gotta go, there's a lawn that needs cutting.
Oh yes, as someone from Southern Ontario I hate the term "redneck".
please insert smilies where you feel they are most appropriate.
In reply to:
had a bit of humour in their posts but perhaps it didn't come off as intended
oh, i know.. and so did i.. i just get sensitive sometimes..
the Texas track is a great track.. my wife and i went to the first two NASCAR races there, and are planning on going to the fall race this november. they add more and more seats every year.. i think this year they were up to 170,000.. its just ridiculious. my biggest complaint is the traffic, but i guess you have to deal with that when soo many people are trying to arrive and leave at the same time.
i have never been to a F1/Indy car race. i suppose it can be as exciting, just in a different way.. i prefer the 'swappin paint' kinda racing, but i am more than willing to give open wheels a shot.
BTW- i did get to go to Darlington, back in spring of 92. the mountain dew southern 500. it was my first NASCAR race to go see, and bill elliott won. a friend of mine actually won 2 tickets on the radio, and told me if i would drive, i could have the extra ticket.. i had never been, so i figured what the heck.. i remember it was harry gants final season to race, and everyone was wearing green 33 shirts. he was very loved by his fans.. anyway, all it took was one lap at full speed, and i was hooked. the speed, the smell.. it was like a drug, and i wanted more. i ended up going to several more tracks in the carolinas, and became a hardcore fan.
bigjohn
I've never been much of a fan of racing in general... nothing against it, just not "into" it.
Then several years ago I went to a local dragstrip and had a pit pass to do some videography. In addition to the more 'local" guys, they also had alcohol, nitro and jet cars. I absolutely understand what you're saying John when you say "you have to be there". The sheer horsepower is just awe-inspiring and when those jet cars warm up and inch their way to the line, the sound that just keeps hitting your chest is more impressive than I've heard from any subwoofer. There was just no way to duplicate the impact in video... you had to be there.
Ireally imagine that most times, not all, when somone finds something "boring", they just don't understand the intrincities of what's going on.
I could never watch golf on TV until I started playing, THEN I understood how difficult it was. I've always imagined that the "slow" pace of watching two guys battle for first place was similar to NASCAR. One guy makes a small mistake, it may or may not cost him the race/tournament depending upon whether they can recover or if their competitor slips a bit too.
Watching someone try to maintain perfection under incredible pressure is entertaining in itself.
In reply to:
bren and thasp- and i really thought you guys were a little more *sharp*, than to pull out the "rednecks" and "driving around in circles" jokes.
John - my post was entirely in jest. I don't "get" the sport in the way that most North Americans don't "get" soccer... I'll yell and jump up out of my seat for a Roy Makaay header that curls just outside of the upright, but "stock car" racing doesn't tweak anything inside me. It was always on TV when I was a kid, I didn't "get" it then, and I still don't.
I don't hate all motorsports, but there's something a bit, (I don't want to use the word fake, but... false?) about Busch and NASCAR to me... like they're trying to put one over on me that "no, really... this is a T-bird... and that car over there that's essentially the same but with slightly different panels - that's a Monte Carlo!"... I think I'd much prefer Street Stock or Super Stock - with actual production cars with actual engines I've worked on - I've seen every part in a SB 350, 305, 318 and 360, and even had a few left over as souvenirs when I was done tinkering!
Note to all: compression rings are NOT optional!
Everyone's sport is like a religion if they take it seriously. I've got two shooters that watch NASCAR religiously, my VTR op and I sit there speechless as they talk about bank angles at Darlington, then they sit quietly while we discuss FCB being 2 up on aggregate going into Ali Sami Yen.
Wasn't meant to thumb my nose at your sport of choice, was definately just for the humour value for those of us that just don't understand the fascination, y'know?
Bren R.
In reply to:
Wasn't meant to thumb my nose at your sport of choice
thats OK.. i cant stand soccer!
and i would choose football(NFL), as my "sport of choice". and i wasnt bothered or upset at anything you or thasp said.. i was just responding with my normal 8AM chipperness!!
can we all just find one sport that we like, and agree on..?
naked female juggling..?
6 hour lobster bake marathon..?
midget wrestling..?
i guess we cant find one..
bigjohn
In reply to:
naked female juggling..?
6 hour lobster bake marathon..?
midget wrestling..?
If you've ever stayed in the infield for a Talladega event you'll see all of this and more...those folks are crazy up there!
John, we may have crossed paths along the way a time or two. Wife and I owned an airplane for several years that I flew to just about every track on the east coast, she does'nt get into racing so usually it was myself and a couple of friends. Whenever we went to Darlington a local ag operator would let us fly in to his grass strip and we would pitch a tent right under the wing of the airplane, they would shuffle us around and even took us to a place where we could get beer on Sunday!
I agree that watching the sport on TV does not do it any justice, being there live and seeing what the drivers do with the cars at speed is amazing. My first live event was the Daytona 500 in 1976.
naked female juggling..?
Exploitive.
6 hour lobster bake marathon..?
Cockroaches of the sea. There ain't enough garlic butter to get me to like them. Gimme beef. Beef and fire.
midget wrestling..?
Exploitive.
So no, I guess Freedom of Choice will have to reign here.
Bren R.
I'll keep my beef away from you, thagyaverrymuch. You'll ruin it with too much fire.
Wouldn't dream of starving that tapeworm of yours.
Bren R.
As far as parasites go,
Taenia saginata is actually quite benign...
well there's always naked female midget wresting lobsters. it's like nascar; not that interesting till you've seen it in person but after you've been there you're hooked for life!!
M80s came today via Fedex. Guess that I will have to wait until my son gets home to help me get them in the house and uppack them. They are pretty big and heavy (just as I expected). The delivery man left them in the garage.
The Rat.
At what time should we be expecting a quick opinion on how they sound.And pics of course
wid:
Initial opinon is that they sound very good, very good indeed. I did a quick adjustment of the receiver settings and was trying to listen carefully to some of the themes that I am use to hearing on TV. The themes are fuller and richer. I like the M80s, and I will give them a much better test as time goes on. I really need to try them with a few good DVD disks so I can try the 6.1 to its fullest.
I bought a Radio Shack meter and will set the system up a little more carefully this weekend when I have some time.
The pictures will also have to wait until this weekend.
Now, if Samsung would just get that HL-R 6168 out on the market?!#$!
The Rat.