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#105544 - 07/23/05 06:05 PM new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
i am trying to set up home theatre
room size 25x15x12
7.1 setup
receiver : not sure..debating between HK 7300 and NAD T773
dvd player: not sure
speakers: epic80-600...........just looking at the pictures makes me want to buy them.........don't know how they sound
do you recommend a different brand sub ??
display: debating between DLP and Microdisplay

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#105545 - 07/23/05 06:24 PM Re: new system
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
In reply to:

just looking at the pictures makes me want to buy them.........don't know how they sound

In reply to:


welcome to the boards! i'm admittedly no authority on the recievers you mentioned, however if you look in the "Hearing Things" section of the boards, under the auditions here, you might find someone that lives near you that'll be glad to show off their speakers for you.

_________________________
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

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#105546 - 07/23/05 11:10 PM Re: new system
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
Get the EP600. Trust me on this one. It'll blow you away.

Oh yeah, the 80s are pretty damn good, too.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#105547 - 07/24/05 12:13 PM Re: new system
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
Sure would be one nice setup, go for it if you have the funds man

Randy

Axiom 60's 150 350 4-Qs8's
Denon 2805
Sanyo Z2 Projector
Panasonic S97S HDMI DVD
Samsung OTA HD Receiver
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#105548 - 07/24/05 12:24 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thansk for your replies.
currently i own YAMAHA RX-Z1 AND ENERGY ENCORE SPEAKERS WITH SONY 32 WEGA AND SONY PROGRESSIVE DVD PLAYER.
ARE THESE "PERIPHERALS" ADEQUATE OR DO I HAVE TO UPGRADE THEM TOO.

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#105549 - 07/24/05 12:33 PM Re: new system
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
If your going to get the m80's, you need to be sure your receiver will drive their 4ohm design. Not familiar with the Z1, but I know some others have had issues with their Yammy's going into shutdown mode if they get to hot.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#105550 - 07/24/05 12:44 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
but if i get the NAD T773 OR HK 7300 do i also need to purchase a separate amp ?? and if yes which one ?
also, since i am planning on 7.1 do i need to get the same surrounds ?? ie QS 8. and what about the sub ? any comments on the EP 600

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#105551 - 07/24/05 01:02 PM Re: new system
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
In reply to:

if i get the NAD T773 OR HK 7300 do i also need to purchase a separate amp ??




No. Both of those have ample power.

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#105552 - 07/24/05 01:04 PM Re: new system
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
Oh yeah, I also think your current set-up is just fine and dandy. I would upgrade speakers and sub and leave everything else. The Yamaha you have now should power any new speakers with ease.

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#105553 - 07/24/05 01:07 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
but read the thread currently active and the guy mentioned having some problems with the power ?? or am i not reading the thread and the discussion completly

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#105554 - 07/24/05 01:11 PM Re: new system
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
I ran a set of M80's for a short time with a RX-V1 with no problems. The Yamaha you have is a step up so I would be shocked if you had any problems.

Don't get all caught up in the 4ohm thing. Anything decent in todays world will be fine with it.

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#105555 - 07/24/05 01:15 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
what about the sub and the surrounds ?? are they adequate ? i read lot of stuff on SVS........how do they compare with the EP 600?

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#105556 - 07/24/05 01:16 PM Re: new system
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
From Ultimate AV:

In reply to:

The Yamaha Rx-Z1's stereo analog frequency response, left channel measured from the CD input to the speaker output, was -0.03dB at 20Hz, -0.09dB at 20kHz, and -0.41dB at 50kHz. The Dolby Digital response (optical input to speaker output) measured -0.05dB at 20Hz and -0.18dB at 20kHz, left channel; the center channel was virtually the same. With the left surround channel set to Small, the response was -3dB at 91Hz and -6dB at 69Hz. The A-weighted signal/noise ratio measured 100dB. THD+noise in stereo at 1W into 8ohms measured 0.007% at 20Hz, 0.009% at 1kHz, and 0.006% at 20kHz. At 2W into 4ohms, THD+ noise measured 0.005% across the board. With five channels driven, the Rx-Z1's power output at clipping (1% THD+noise) measured 137 watts per channel at 1kHz and 132Wpc at 20Hz, left channel measured to the nearest watt. Driving all channels into 4ohms, the Yamaha clipped at 188Wpc at 1kHz and at 169Wpc at 20Hz. With two channels driven at 1kHz, the Yamaha clipped at 153Wpc into 8ohms and at 258Wpc into 4ohms.




They got it to clip which is fine with what they do, but there is no mention of the receiver shutting down as a result of the 4ohm load. Like I said, you will be fine.

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#105557 - 07/24/05 01:21 PM Re: new system
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
In reply to:

what about the sub and the surrounds ?? are they adequate ? i read lot of stuff on SVS........how do they compare with the EP 600?




I have no experience with Axiom subs but I have owned SVS and HSU and I'm currently running a HSU. Either of them are great sub manufactures that offer subs that will do everything you could ever want them to do.

As for surrounds, figure out what you want for mains first and then go from there. The QS8's would be a good choice or you can also go with a full range speaker. It all depends on you.



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#105558 - 07/24/05 02:02 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thanks for your reply, i was getting worried about the 4 ohms thing. and my manual said 8 ohms... if you had to choose between the three subs........dollar for dollar and performance which one would you recommend..also any specific models for SVS and HSU that you recommend

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#105559 - 07/24/05 02:11 PM Re: new system
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
EDIT! I found your room size.

I would say the EP500 would work but I have no first hand experience with it. After that, I would look strongly at the the SVS PB 12 or the HSU VTF-3 MK 2. But as I mentioned before, you won't go wrong with anything from SVS or HSU.

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#105560 - 07/24/05 02:14 PM Re: new system
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
"room size 25x15x12"

in his frost pist.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#105561 - 07/24/05 02:14 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
its 22x17x11
i will go with the M80 for fronts and VP 150 for center
thanks

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#105562 - 07/24/05 02:15 PM Re: new system
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
Yeah I caught it after and did the fast edit to save face! .............but he has now posted a different size?

Top
#105563 - 07/24/05 02:16 PM Re: new system
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
Well, damn, I keep on being too fast. Sorry guys!
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#105564 - 07/24/05 02:17 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
surprisingly my room size changed overnight
but after reading thread here yesterday i actually measured the room dimensions using laser tape..hope its accurate

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#105565 - 07/24/05 05:59 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thanks once again....would EP 600 be too big ?? with the surrounds will it be too much if i purchase the floor standing speakers say for eg either the M 50 or 60 or perhaps even the 80s
the receiver i have is for 5.1 setup so if i want to have 7.1 i will need to purchase receiver with 7.1 set up.
may be i will try my current receiver first and if i want to upgrade later to 7.1 will buy the additional speakers and the NAD T773..
what do you guys think

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#105566 - 07/24/05 06:03 PM Re: new system
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
In a room with a 25 ft wall and a 12 ft ceiling, I'd say that EP600 would be good. I don't understand your second question, but making a guess, I'd point out that most people use the QS8s for surrounds with their 60s and 80s. Those of us with 50s do various things--one guy uses M3s, I use QS4s, I think someone else uses QS4s... and that's all of us!
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#105567 - 07/24/05 06:19 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
what i was getting at was, do i have to use the QS8 for surrounds or can i also use the M 50, 60 or 80s as surrounds. and if i do it, is it an overkill ? i would like to use QS8 for surrounds...initially in 5.1 setup followed by 7.1 setup
thanks for your input

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#105568 - 07/24/05 06:25 PM Re: new system
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5256
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>would EP 600 be too big ??

There's "too big" as in "too big to work well in your room" or as in "bigger than you need; a smaller model would work just as well 99% of the time".

Believe it or not there isn't all that much overlap between floor standing speakers and a real good subwoofer, since you normally run the speakers in "small" and cut them off at 60-80 Hz. What the big speakers give you is the ability to play loud and clear in a large room; even the biggest "reasonable" floor standing speaker isn't going to do much down in the "real" subwoofer frequency ranges...

There is obviously some overlap in that both sub and M50/60/80 are capable in the 40-100 Hz range but that's not what you buy a good sub for in an HT system. Down below 40 Hz (where all the fun happens) none of the floor standing speakers are in the same league as even a midrange sub.

For music it seems to be a different story. Some people buy subs to get insane amounts of bass at higher frequencies, say up to 80 or 100 Hz. In that case there IS a real overlap between sub and speakers.

I still tend to turn my sub off for most music -- the M60s go as deep as I care for 99% of the time.

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#105569 - 07/24/05 06:30 PM Re: new system
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5256
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>what i was getting at was, do i have to use the QS8 for surrounds or can i also use the M 50, 60 or 80s as surrounds. and if i do it, is it an overkill ?

Ahh. For movies, the dispersed sound from the QS8s is generally preferable to the point sound of the regular speakers. For music, I still prefer regular speakers a bit over QS8s. Most people go with QS4/QS8 as the best all-round solution -- people who buy regular speakers for surrounds tend to go with bookshelf models because there is generally not much LF content in the surround channels. A few have floorstanders all round and get great performance but they seem to play at louder SPLs than the rest of us.

Some people have commented that there is an advantage to having surround speakers that can play down to lower frequencies than the QS8s, although there is not a lot of agreement on this.

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#105570 - 07/24/05 06:33 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
my question was in regard to, whether too big for my room and do i need all that bass for watching mostly action, special effects movies and listening to jazz, string intruments, classical indian music with lots of harmonium and tabla.


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#105571 - 07/24/05 06:40 PM Re: new system
Wid Online   confused
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
For your room size either Epic 80 package would do a wonderful job for you.For action and special effects movies you would want as much subwoofer as you could afford too.With your selection of music I would say the 80s could handle jazz pretty much on their own.As far as harmonium and tabla you lost me on that one
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#105572 - 07/24/05 06:44 PM Re: new system
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
I typically do not get into wether or not 'this' or 'that' may be too much or too little for other's listening habits, but I will say that sometimes common sense and what your particular ear likes may just very well be the way to go. I like listening to bass for both movies and music so therefore I don't mess around with the sub too much but if I feel on a particular song or cd that the bass is a little too much I'll reach behind the sub and turn the thing off...easy fix.


_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#105573 - 07/24/05 06:45 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thanks for your help... harmonium is like a key board which uses air to make sound...and tabla is basically two small drums (like bongo/congo).
i think will go with Epic 80-600 series. thats the easy part
now to get the wife to agree to all this !!!!!!!!!!! thats another issue all together!!!!!!!!!11

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#105574 - 07/24/05 06:58 PM Re: new system
Wid Online   confused
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Just buy it and tell her about it once it's in your home.That has worked well for me on occasion.She won't stay mad once she hears it
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#105575 - 07/24/05 09:20 PM Re: new system
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5256
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>and do i need all that bass for watching mostly action, special effects movies...

Depends on how loudly you are playing the movies and how realistic you want the sound effects to be. If you want to play at movie theater levels and want explosions etc... to scare the <censored> out of you then you can make good use of a pretty big sub. At normal volumes the EP500 would probably be more than enough but you might hit the limits on occasion... with the 600 you would probably never hit the limits.

>>and listening to jazz, string intruments,

Nope. You could be very happy without a sub if you go with M80s or anything comparable.

Subs are mostly for movies. The bigger the room, the bigger the sub, pretty much...


Edited by bridgman (07/24/05 09:22 PM)

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#105576 - 07/24/05 10:24 PM Re: new system
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
Oh, subs only for movies my foot. Look at the bassy music thread...
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#105577 - 07/24/05 10:56 PM Re: new system
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5256
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>Look at the bassy music thread...

Yeah, lots of jazz and string instruments in that thread

I guess I should read the bassy music thread again. I still find that most music is not mixed to sound right with a good sub... at best it sounds right on good fullrange speakers and a bit too bassy with a good sub; at worst it sounds right on an AM radio and sounds kind of BOSE-y even without a sub.

EDIT -- I just read the "bassy music" thread again. My apologies -- it *was* about music which warranted the use of a sub.


Edited by bridgman (07/24/05 11:02 PM)

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#105578 - 07/24/05 11:02 PM Re: new system
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7373
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
For the most part I've gone without the sub for music. To my ears, the presentation just sounds better with the speakers by themselves. Maybe my sub placement is not optimal, but there is nothing I can do about that at the moment.

I haven't tried the sub with my M40s and don't know how the sound would be with them. I guess after I get done moving I can play around with different configurations.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#105579 - 07/25/05 04:11 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thanks once again for replying......i think i will just order it quietly and when "it" come pretend innocent and surprised......or perhaps send her away for few days, hook up everything and make sure it works great and then show her...mostly women don't like guys electronic toys when the damn thing doesn't work and the guy spends hours/days reading the manual and getting technical support and she feels neglected....if the thing works great, chances are she will complain less.........just my opinion......but thanks again to everybody and i will post comments and maybe pix once everything is set up and working

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#105580 - 07/25/05 04:17 PM Re: new system
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
Also, if noone has mentioned this yet, order from the Factory Outlet option, that extra 10% is a great deal...
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#105581 - 07/25/05 04:22 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
that was something i forgot to ask........is there any difference in quality/performance of the speakers from outlet ?? more waiting period?? i am interested in boston cherry finish....whats the quality of wood? is it solid cherry wood panels or just veneers ?? whats the waiting time for regular orders - non outlet models
thanks

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#105582 - 07/25/05 04:32 PM Re: new system
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
Many many of us order from the F.O.. That is where I got mine, after talking to everyone on this site. The F.O. speakers are no different than the regular. Axiom has a high quality control process, and even if a speaker has the slightest nick or other small issue, it goes to the outlet. Most of us have searched every inch of our speakers and can't find anything wrong. The issues are only cosmetic, if you can find them, not technical or quality issues. If you order your speakers from the outlet, they will ship all the speakers around the time, normally sooner, of the longest wait date speaker. So if the surround has the longest date, that is when you should receive all of them. The standard colors are a very high end veneer, the finest I've ever found. I love my Mansfield Beech speakers. All speakers are sent 2nd Day Fed Ex from F.O. or regular inventory.

Good Luck

Randy


_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#105583 - 07/25/05 04:42 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thats good news....how about their cable quality ?? my understanding is monster cables are highly overpriced....my current wires are 14 guage with gold banana plugs....or do i need to buy new cables too...

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#105584 - 07/25/05 04:59 PM Re: new system
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
A lot depends on the distance to the speakers. I use 12gauge for all of the speakers, which is probably overkill, especially for the shorter runs. I think 14 gauge will work fine, as long as your not talking about really long runs to your surrounds. I've never used Axiom speaker wire, I bought a 500ft spool off of Ebay...Randy

_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#105585 - 07/25/05 05:04 PM Re: new system
Tarun Offline
local

Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 295
Loc: Hillsborough, NJ
I actually purchased some of the Axiom Bulk Speaker wire. It looks nice and seems to be well made based on the multiple copper strands that it holds. Its not too expensive either....there is cheaper out there that I have heard about from posts here.... I however, would purchase more Axiom cable only from the standpoint that it was rugged and the rubber shielding makes for a bit of a easier install in my scenario....

-Tarun
_________________________
-------------------------------------
Denon 4308
M80x2,VP150,EP600,4xQS8

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#105586 - 07/25/05 05:14 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
who are the people returning speakers to the outlet stores ?? if there is no obvious cosmetic damage and no problems with performance ?? just wondering.........

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#105587 - 07/25/05 05:18 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
whats the difference between EP 600H and EP 600V ?
just looking at the outlet store........waiting time for QS8 in Boston cherry finish is 10 weeks !!!!!!!!

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#105588 - 07/25/05 05:21 PM Re: new system
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6218
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Returned speakers are NOT sold from the Factory Outlet. They are sold cheaply to staff, family, and friends. No Factory Outlet speaker is a return. Factory Outlet speakers have some small cosmetic flaw that occurred in construction, packing, or shipping, but in all other ways, will perform as new.

My M60s, for example, had a very subtle mark that was created when the vinyl itself was manufactured. It was 2 weeks before I finally found these flaws, and nobody ever noticed them.

The 600H is meant to be placed Horizontally,



while the 600V is placed Vertically.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#105589 - 07/25/05 05:25 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thanks ajax....but 10 weeks is just too long !!!!!!!

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#105590 - 07/25/05 07:08 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
besides placement difference.......any other difference in sound etc.....i would presume none ....but just making sure.
thanks

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#105591 - 07/25/05 07:14 PM Re: new system
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
Minor correction--the finish is not wood veneer, they are very high quality vinyl.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#105592 - 07/25/05 07:15 PM Re: new system
Wid Online   confused
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

No difference in performance.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#105593 - 07/25/05 07:19 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
are they vinyl !!!!!!!!!!! plastic!!!!!!!! they look solid wood or is it just the picture ......

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#105594 - 07/25/05 07:38 PM Re: new system
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
It's vinyl over MDF (medium density fiberboard-what most good speakers are made of.)
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#105595 - 07/25/05 07:43 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thanks for the clarification


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#105596 - 07/25/05 08:12 PM Re: new system
Wid Online   confused
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

They look really good too.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#105597 - 07/25/05 11:16 PM Re: new system
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I have to tell people that they are vinyl.

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#105598 - 07/25/05 11:23 PM Re: new system
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
I'm not sure I said people are returning these to the outlet. These are not refurbished speakers that have been returned. Axiom does not sell returned speakers. I suppose people have had warranty issues with F.O. speakers, but that also happens to the non-F.O. speakers.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#105599 - 07/26/05 12:54 AM Re: new system
PaulM Offline
local

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 278
Loc: St. Albert, Alberta
You don't have to get all or none of your speakers from the FO. If the QS8's from the FO are too long a wait, you can get them new and the rest from the FO for the 10% discount.

I was in the same position as you - wanted the discounts but wasn't patient enough for the long wait time for the surrounds from the FO. By the way, i never found a blemish on the FO M22's and VP100. Looked just like the new QS8's.

Paul

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#105600 - 07/26/05 12:54 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
what kind of warranty issues ??


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#105601 - 07/26/05 01:17 PM Re: new system
PaulM Offline
local

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 278
Loc: St. Albert, Alberta
Most Axiom warrantee issues I've read on this board relate to a driver that doesn't work or gets blown or a speaker that arrives that has been damaged by the shipping company (now Fedex). Axiom is a top notch company in resolving such problems. They'll immediately send out a new driver or speaker to replace the faulty or damaged product.

Paul

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#105602 - 07/26/05 01:27 PM Re: new system
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
I have NEVER heard of any warrainty issues with Axiom FO or non-FO speakers.
_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

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#105603 - 07/26/05 01:31 PM Re: new system
Tarun Offline
local

Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 295
Loc: Hillsborough, NJ
I had one new QS8 that had a badly damaged dust cap...couldnt fix it for my life. I wasnt quite happy about the damage and thus Axiom sent me a new driver....didnt ask for the old one back.

I would have to say that warranty replacement and customer service are top notch here.
_________________________
-------------------------------------
Denon 4308
M80x2,VP150,EP600,4xQS8

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#105604 - 07/26/05 02:14 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thanks you all for reassuring me.......its really nice to know about a company that cares for its costomers...
lately i have heard about some "rocket" speakers...any ideas what they are and how they compare to epic 80-600


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#105605 - 07/27/05 05:14 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
any suggestions or opinions about the "rockets" and how they compare to axioms ?
thanks

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#105606 - 07/27/05 05:19 PM Re: new system
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
This has been discussed a lot around here. Do a search and you will have stuff to read for hours!

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#105607 - 07/27/05 05:39 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
are you running m80s with the rocket center.....its all so confusing.....mains by axiom, center by rocket, sub by svs or hsu.....what about the surrounds.......is there like a simple setup.....one package does it all ?? or am i expecting too much !!!!!!

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#105608 - 07/27/05 05:45 PM Re: new system
Wid Online   confused
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

In reply to:

is there like a simple setup




Yes the epic 80 package.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#105609 - 07/27/05 05:48 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
but what about the rocket center......in another thread "they" talk about rocket center as better than vp150 ?

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#105610 - 07/27/05 06:37 PM Re: new system
Thasp Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/27/04
Posts: 338
And others talk vice versa.

It's all opinions and science with speakers. Take each with a grain of salt, and choose what you think is best for you after reading the science and subjective stuff for both speaks.



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#105611 - 07/27/05 07:53 PM Re: new system
Wid Online   confused
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Take into account the Rocket RSC200 center is $599 and the Axiom VP150 comes in at $385.I would say if you are going with Axiom I would stay with the VP150.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#105612 - 07/28/05 01:57 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
but if you get a "much better product" for $200 more why not ? more importantly does it match well with m80s ? or do i have to buy the rocket package ?
any suggetions/ ideas ??

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#105613 - 07/28/05 02:16 PM Re: new system
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
I'm gonna guess that the Rocket center will not match-up well with Axioms....that said.....

Seems to me that there are two chains of thought on the matter: One group likes a full-range center; the other group dosen't much care as long as the center sounds good to them and matches the mains.

(then there's the third sub-group within Axiom.....a very, very, very......very small sub-group, that likes a near-full-range center: either an M3 or an m22, vertical if posible; who may prefer a full range center, if one were avaiable....)

The same situation applies to surround speakers: Some like direct firing, some prefer diffuse. Most here at Axiom like diffuse, some of us like direct and use M3s or M22s or even floorstanders as surrounds. Depends on what sounds best to "us", and how much bass we want in the surrounds rather than thru the sub.

Ahhhh.....the freedom of choice




As long as the system has that "Axiom" sound!

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#105614 - 07/28/05 02:23 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
where can i audition epic 80-600 ? i live in napa, ca......anybody ??
thanks

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#105615 - 07/28/05 02:24 PM Re: new system
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
Haveing heard both a Rocket system and my Axiom system it all comes down to preferences. Which do YOU like.?
I would never say the Rocket center is better than the VP150, just different. In MY room for ME, Axioms are the way to go. If I lived somewhere else with different acoustics, I may like the Rockets better.
If you go with Axiom mains you'll want to stick with an Axiom center.
If you go with Rocket mains you'll want to stick with a Rocket center.
Because of the two brands different sounds you wouldnt want to mix.
How would you describe your room, hard and reflective or soft and not reflective?
For the record, I really liked the Rocket system I heard. It was in a VERY hard and reflective room. (cement walls floor and ceiling with sparse furniture and decoration.)

_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

Top
#105616 - 07/28/05 02:29 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
right now it has sheet rock all around with carpet.......i don't intent to put much furniture there except some really comfy couches....so i take my room would be considered "hard" ?

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#105617 - 07/28/05 02:35 PM Re: new system
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
Actually I would consider your room on the soft side because of the carpet alone. Add a couple of big soft sofas, and that makes it even softer.
Califonia audition list................
California

Antioch - (4)M80, (1)VP150, (4)QS8, (2)M3, (2)M22ti (koiman)

Campbell - M50s (Stbean)

Fremont - M22, VP150, QS8 - (gnrajagopal)

Fresno - M60s (richeydog)

Grass Valley - M60s (mamzh)

Long Beach - EP600, M22, QS8, VP150 (LongBeachBear)

Los Angeles - M60, VP150, QS8, M2i (Spiffnme)

Menlo Park (SF Bay Area) - M22s, VP150, QS8s (oldskoolboarder)

Monteray - M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP350 - (jordanz)

Oakland - M22, VP100 (Pmbuko)
Oakland - M50s, QS4s - (kcarlile)

San Marcos - M80s, VP150, QS8 (ZeN)

Irvine - M22s, VP150, 3 QS8s (snippy)

San Ramon - M80s, VP150 (simboticus)

Tracy - M80s (front, center, & rears) QS8s (surrounds)EP600 (Tharkun)

Tustin - VP150, M22s, QS4s (4) - (Aetherhole)

Newport Beach - M60 + QS8 + M2 (2x6spds)

Nevada City - M50s, VP150, M22s - (md55)

Union City - M60s, VP150, QS8s - (twelly)

Just shoot one of these guys a PM and you'll be good to go.


_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

Top
#105618 - 07/28/05 02:39 PM Re: new system
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10681
Loc: Central NH
I would consider that "neutral" considering carpet and sheetrock are on the "absorbing" side. If you added heavy drapes and heavier, padded furniture, it would more likely be considered a "dead" room.

What are the dimensions?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#105619 - 07/28/05 04:15 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
room size is 22x17x11.......how do i contact people for audition ?? i dropped email to tharkun in tracy and haven't heard so far.......

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#105620 - 07/28/05 04:18 PM Re: new system
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
Generally, you PM or email them. That's a big room...
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#105621 - 07/28/05 04:33 PM Re: new system
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
PM them, but you may have to wait a day or two, since they are not logged in full time in this forum. I am pretty sure somebody will offer you an audition.
_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#105622 - 07/28/05 07:55 PM Re: new system
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5256
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
This time of year you might want to PM a few people since anyone who can get away will be on vacation somewhere.

If we're posting, we're stuck in town...

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#105623 - 08/02/05 07:52 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
just ordered the epic 80-600 from oultet....... 9 weeks to go.......

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#105624 - 08/02/05 07:55 PM Re: new system
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
BRAVO!!!!!!

A system you will be very happy with!

Bet it doesn't take that long.

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#105625 - 08/02/05 07:59 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thank you all for your expertise and input....decision making was easy......now wondering should i also get the NAD or try to work with my YAMAHA RX-Z1 ??

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#105626 - 08/02/05 09:03 PM Re: new system
snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
newkid-how long is the shortest wait you have?
_________________________
------------------------------------------------
Leave the gun, Take the canolis.

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#105627 - 08/02/05 09:14 PM Re: new system
Wid Online   confused
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
With the M80s if it were me I would opt for the NAD.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


Top
#105628 - 08/03/05 01:34 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
the shortest wait is for the m80s but the longest wait is the surrouds about 9 weeks....
i also read my YAMAHA RX-Z1 manual carefully for the first time.....and it has capasity for additional two front speakers called front effect speakers in addition to the two mains.....does that mean i can add two additional surrounds in the front ?? or if i go with the NAD, is 5.1 or 7.1 or 7.2 setup ? what additional benefits do i get with the NAD ?
the countdown has begun!!!!!! if anybody in north bay area has this system i would like to audition them and touch and feel them !!!!!!!! thanks

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#105629 - 08/03/05 01:54 PM Re: new system
libirm Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 86
Loc: New York
I use a Denon 885/2105 that sounds great. Denon, HK, NAD, Outlaw.. there’s allot of great stuff available. As was suggested to me at these forums: look at the features you want and find them at your price point. As other posts have mentioned cost does always equal sound quality. And there are many opinions about what good and bad. Some legit others not. Remember trust your ears and what sounds good to you. You cannot go wrong with speakers from Axiom you are going to love them.
Enjoy!


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#105630 - 08/03/05 01:59 PM Re: new system
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
They usually ship closer to the sooner side of things than the later if you do a big order like that. No guarantee that will happen with you, but this is generally the experience of people on the boards. When my wife ordered a custom shop VP100, she was quoted 6 weeks, and we got it in a week and a half.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

Top
#105631 - 08/03/05 02:06 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thats good to know....coming back to the NADs are they planning to come up with newer models or is the 773 the latest and best they have ??
what additional benefits with 7.1 setup....my understanding is most the movies released on dvd don't yet have the 7.1 decoding ????????

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#105632 - 08/03/05 02:08 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
how much does this NAD 773 cost ?? any deals going around for this one ??
thanks

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#105633 - 08/03/05 03:04 PM Re: new system
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
Big fun of Rotel here, but I liked the looks of the New NAD

Rotel is in a different league from mass consumer brands (yamah, denon, HK etc.) As such, it is more expensive but provides the best bang for the buck. Check them out:

Rotel Website


_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#105634 - 08/03/05 03:47 PM Re: new system
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
Sorry, I meant fan not fun :-)
_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#105635 - 08/03/05 03:53 PM Re: new system
hashts Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 164
DAMN! Those new NAD's simply look gorgeous!

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#105636 - 08/03/05 04:28 PM Re: new system
libirm Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 86
Loc: New York
JohnK I hope you don't mind I copyed this from a passed post of yours but I think it is a must read for any looking for a reciever:
"Bernard, again we run into the old problem that impressions formed from informal listening may not reflect reality. In a presentation to an AES meeting on the necessity of carefully controlled blind testing, Dr. Toole emphasized the point with the comment that "If you can see what you're listening to, you can't hear it". Alan has simply described what we've learned(at least those of us willing to learn)about amplifiers. If you haven't studied it before you may find the Stereo Review amplifier blind test report to be informative. Note among other items that a correctly designed $12,000 pair of tube amplifiers(i.e. they didn't have a flawed "tube sound")were indistinguishable from the $220 Pioneer receiver, as was the $2,000 Mark Levinson. It's also notable how the clear differences reported before the blind sessions began disappeared once the participants actually had to "trust their ears". "
Thanks for the insight John..

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#105637 - 08/03/05 04:53 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
thats a nice post..its true that you have to hear the sound and know the difference based on what your ears hears and not what your eyes see!!!!!!! but what i looking for is that consistent good sound that you get to hear day in and day out....and something that is compatible and maximize the utility of epic80-600.

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#105638 - 08/03/05 04:54 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
hi thyname........what model of rotel is most compatible with the epic 80-600

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#105639 - 08/03/05 05:44 PM Re: new system
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
Re: libirm, I really think that a good quality amp make a big difference in the quality of 2 channel stereo (not sure about HT though). I am not talking about the "tonal" differences, but about "true" power. More power equals better sound and not simply louder. Anyway.. there seems to be a lot of debate on that issue. I would recommend anybody to go and listen for yourselves. Or, as NeverHappy does, get them home and try them on your own.

Now, RE: Rotel. My future HT system would be Rotel separates:

RB-1080 Stereo Power Amp for the fronts (I already have this)
RMB-1075 Power Amp for all the rest of channels in a 7.1 system
RSP-1068 pre/pro (pre amp, surround sound processor, you name it)

I would not be able to buy top of the line RMB-1095 and RSP-1098 as they are too expensive for me.

FYI this is a Rotel Price List

Rotel is not available online. Only from authorized sellers. You will not be able to get a major discount from your retailer (even none if you live in an area with no competition). Reach for 10% off. You can also check ebay and audiogon for used.

_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#105640 - 08/03/05 06:03 PM Re: new system
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
... I forgot to mention: if you are in a budget (like everybody else, including me I fear) you may want to have a look at Rotel RSX-1056 Receiver rated 5x75 wpc "true" power with $1299 msrp. If I get this, I may still keep my rb-1080 for the fronts using the RSX-1056's preouts. ... Anyway, these are all plans of mine only....
_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#105641 - 08/03/05 06:23 PM Re: new system
snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
if the shortest wait is the m80's then add that wait time plus the 9weeks divide by 2 and that is when they will arrive. unless they have changed their FO policy since feb.
just fyi
_________________________
------------------------------------------------
Leave the gun, Take the canolis.

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#105642 - 08/03/05 07:08 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
that means i may be getting them in one month or so.......thats very exciting.....now i really have to sort out the receiver thing so that i have everything at the same time.....any suggestions about the display.....i am thinking about the mitsubishi dlp/micordisplay.....but i hear they have come up with 1028i models too...so much to choose from and so little money !!!!!!!

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#105643 - 08/04/05 08:43 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
is anybody using the M80 as front center??????? and if yes whats the ideal placement - vertical or horizontal ?? i am debating that .......and if i do it then i can use the vp150 as back center.....what do you guys think

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#105644 - 08/04/05 09:21 PM Re: new system
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10307
Kid, using three identical speakers across the front would be ideal if there's room to position the center vertically(don't even think of positioning it horizontally, since when vertical the horizontal dispersion is wider and smoother). Dennis(tharkun)has a setup which includes three M80s across the front.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#105645 - 08/04/05 09:30 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
i totally forgot about the height of these speakers...there isn't enough room to keep them standing in the middle...maybe thats why i was thinking about horizontal orientation.....

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#105646 - 08/05/05 05:31 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
any suggestion for the dvd player to go with the system..i was thinking about the famouse oppo player....any thoughts/comments
thanks

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#105647 - 08/08/05 02:22 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
i think i am gonna order the oppo dvd player......now for the TV....should i go with the DLP or LCD.....any input will be appreciated
thanks

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#105648 - 09/01/05 05:11 PM Re: new system
newkid2005 Offline
local

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 200
Loc: napa, california
they shipped the epic 80-600 yesterday!!!!!!!!! can hardly wait to see them and put them in action

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