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#121416 - 12/20/05 12:36 PM Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Have been a bit busy so slow in posting some pics of the new toy, but here are a few:

The SMS-1 (Subwoofer Management System) arrived with no damage.


It was packaged in two boxes, and within the inner box a third box had the accessories.


The accessories included are: Calibrated precision microphone with a windscreen cover in its own storage case, Tabletop microphone stand, Microphone stand adapter, 6 foot audio cables, 6 foot video cable, 20 foot XLR microphone cable, Rack mount ears with allan wrench, Detachable 6 foot power cord, Remote control with batteris, and a 43 page User's Manual.


On the front panel there is an XLR MIC input, volume control buttons, power on/off, and the digital display. The display shows the subwoofer volume,
preset number, the auto-EQ/self-EQ modes, mute mode, and night mode operaion, the display may be turned off.


The rear inputs consist of a wide range of both XLR and RCA connections, with a few other nice features.


Rear inputs on left side are LFE output, LFE input, MIC input, IR input, RS-232 output/input.


Rear inputs on the right side are S-Video/Video out, three LFE outputs, EQ output, THRU signal, OUTPUT, LFE input, 12v trigger,
speaker levlel input, and the 12v power supply input.


The SMS system is easy to install, and having the video out makes it nice not needing to have a computer/laptop near by. No chances of mis-reading the SPL or other issues as with using the BFD unit. The remote control allows one to set up, adjust, and reset the unit. using the remote one can activate any one of the six seperate buttons, adjust the sub volume up/down at any time, mute the sub, or set it for a night time operation. The manual is user friendly and after a short time of playing the the SMS unit, no longer needed really. The SMS is on the pricey side compared to similar products, but so far, I'm very happy with it and can justify the cost with no problem. If you have the budget and want a quick and easy way to set up sub, I would recommend giving it a try.
When I have some time, and have the twin 600s located and set up, will post the final graph and numbers.
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#121417 - 12/20/05 12:42 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
EddyZ Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 139
Ooooohhhhh...........Aaaahhhhhhhhh!!

Can I borrow some of your budget?

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#121418 - 12/20/05 12:46 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Very timely post. I have been thinking of ordering one myself. I have a BFD sitting unopened in a box but the more I hear about the SMS-1, the more I get the feeling I bought the wrong one. Looking forward to your graphs/impressions.
_________________________
John

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#121419 - 12/20/05 12:48 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
mrbooboy Offline
buff

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Bainbridge Island, WA
I agree. I have been using mine for about a week now and it is very, very easy to use. I have had no problem getting flat FR graphs from multiple locations in my room. In fact, I packed up my BFD last night and put it in the garage (hello eBay!)...no way could I go back after using this.
_________________________
--------- NEC 42" Plasma Axiom M60s(x3)/QS4s/M22s Denon 3805/3910 Outlaw 7700 SVS PC-Ultra

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#121420 - 12/20/05 02:24 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
bridgman Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5326
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Since the first picture showed a sealed box plus cat, can we assume the cat was not in the box when it arrived ?

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#121421 - 12/20/05 02:30 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 870
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
I was wondering the same thing. Thought maybe the kitty was a bonus with the order. BTW, Dennis is the king of toy's!

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#121422 - 12/20/05 02:35 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Nah, that is Mikey and Anika was just off to the side, anytime new boxes arrive, they both have to be into stuff.
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#121423 - 12/20/05 02:52 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
dllewel Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 1189
Loc: Utah, USA
Thanks for posting the pics and information Dennis (Especially the box ) Now I know what to expect on Christmas. This will make it easier to be sure FedEx hasn't run over it and re-boxed .
_________________________
-Dave

M80s VP150 QS8s EP500s
ravenmanor.com/cinema/

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#121424 - 12/20/05 02:59 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Just be sure to look really surprised when you open it on x-mas, you were not suppose to find this post. LOL

Seriously, you will enjoy the SMS-1, it makes sub set up and adjustment simple, and does not require a lot of thinking, which is one reason I decdied to try it.
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#121425 - 12/20/05 06:43 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
GregBe Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 35
Loc: San Jose, CA
So all of you SMS guys, maybe you could try an experiment for me to see if what is going on in my system is normal. Let me first say that I really like my SMS. It has made a dramatic improvement in my system. I do have a question though. I have gotten it to where my response is +-3dB, and it sounds great. When I am in setup mode, and watching the sweeps, if I move the receiver volume up or down, the shape of my curve changes. If for example I have a perfectly flat response, and I move the receiver volume up a few dB's, now all of a sudden my curve isn't so flat. In this example, the lower tones (20-40hz) are now registering higher dB's than the higher tones (40-100hz). Is this normal? I would have assumed that if I moved the receiver volume, the entire frequency range would move with it and the curve would remain the same. Could it be a problem with my SMS? Could it be my sub which is an Axiom EP500? Maybe the DSP chip is stifling certain tones as I am moving up and down with the volume. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Greg

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#121426 - 12/20/05 10:36 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
dmn23 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 649
Loc: Nashville, TN
Good question! I like it!
_________________________
M22ti mains, EP175 sub, VP150 center, QS4 surrounds

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#121427 - 12/21/05 12:04 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
GregBe Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 35
Loc: San Jose, CA
So I posted this over at AVS as well, and I got two replies from non Axiom sub owners experiencing the same thing, so I am pretty sure it is not the DSP chip. This is just a guess on my part, but I wonder if there are different things at play at the different peaks and nulls, and when I turn the volume up or down, these differences are affected differently. I also wonder if I could possibly use the word different any more times in one sentence. Any other thoughts would be great.

BTW, I am really sorry Dennis for jumping in on your thread like this. I am realizing now I should have started a new thread for this. Hopefully it is not a big deal

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#121428 - 12/21/05 01:09 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
mrbooboy Offline
buff

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Bainbridge Island, WA
I just finished testing this...

As I raise the volume on the SMS, the response line moves up or down; however, the shape of the graph doesn't noticable change. I'm using the SMS with a single sub in a small room with some acoustical treatments. Not sure if any of that makes a difference.

To perform this test, I set my Denon receiver to -15 (my normal listening level) and adjusted the SMS volume to +15. The graph is flat (+/- 3 dbs from 20Hz to 160Hz). I then raised the Denon receiver volume to -10 and the shape of the graph didn't change (it only moved up to a higher dB level). I noticed a smiliar effect when I set the Denon receiver volume to -20 (only the graph moved down to a lower dB level). In both cases, the resulting graph is +/- 3 dB from 20Hz to 160Hz.

I hope this helps. If you want some pics of my results, let me know.
_________________________
--------- NEC 42" Plasma Axiom M60s(x3)/QS4s/M22s Denon 3805/3910 Outlaw 7700 SVS PC-Ultra

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#121429 - 12/21/05 08:24 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
dllewel Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 1189
Loc: Utah, USA
I'm guessing this has to do with the room modes?
_________________________
-Dave

M80s VP150 QS8s EP500s
ravenmanor.com/cinema/

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#121430 - 12/22/05 01:03 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
GregBe Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 35
Loc: San Jose, CA
mrbooboy, Very cool of you to test this out for me. Thanks

dllewel, I am thinking the same thing.

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#121431 - 12/22/05 01:11 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
After talking to mrbooboy (David) on the phone yesterday and learing more of his system and subs, the only differance I see is he is not using the Axiom subs, which if I'm correct, should not be a factor.
I hope to have time this weekend to do some more tweaking/playing with the twins, and I will post if I find anything differant than David has. Plan on getting some pics of the final graph posted once I find out where I want to leave the subs. lol
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#121432 - 12/22/05 05:55 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
mrbooboy Offline
buff

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Bainbridge Island, WA
GregBe,

Here are the pics from my testing.

The following is my frequency response with the SMS not activated.



The following shows my frequency response at my normal listening levels, adjusted using the SMS filters.



Now I decrease the volume on the receiver 10dbs below my normal listening level.



Lastly, I increase the volume on the receive 10db higher than my normal listening level.



As you can see, in my room, the shape of the graph doesn't change as the volume on the receive is increased and decreased. The only change is the level of the graphs is adjusted up or down on the dB scale.

I hope this helps.

David

_________________________
--------- NEC 42" Plasma Axiom M60s(x3)/QS4s/M22s Denon 3805/3910 Outlaw 7700 SVS PC-Ultra

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#121433 - 12/22/05 06:03 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
That looks pretty good. Thanks for the pics.

Now, if the price would come down a bit on the SMS (it costs just about as much as a subwoofer). Looks to be very user friendly.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#121434 - 12/22/05 07:41 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
mrbooboy Offline
buff

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Bainbridge Island, WA
I just realized, the volume adjustments I made were +/-5db instead of +/-10db as I stated in my previous post.
_________________________
--------- NEC 42" Plasma Axiom M60s(x3)/QS4s/M22s Denon 3805/3910 Outlaw 7700 SVS PC-Ultra

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#121435 - 12/22/05 10:49 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
sssutherland Offline
local

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 243
Loc: Ventura, CA
Graphs look impressive but how does it sound?

Have you noticed a considerable difference between the use of the equalizer and without it?


_________________________
Where are you Axiom owners?

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#121436 - 12/22/05 11:38 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
mrbooboy Offline
buff

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Bainbridge Island, WA
Yes, the difference with and without the EQ is night and day. My SMS replaces a BFD which I was using for about a year. I would never go back to using a subwoofer without an EQ of some sort. In my opinion, a sub EQ is a must have.
_________________________
--------- NEC 42" Plasma Axiom M60s(x3)/QS4s/M22s Denon 3805/3910 Outlaw 7700 SVS PC-Ultra

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#121437 - 12/23/05 06:31 AM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
I don't want to be the one to pee on anyone's parade, but I wonder if I'm missing something here or, as usual, it's just my room.

Recap for newbies: As many others have heard ad nauseam, I had been trying to solve the severe bass issues in my small, square room. I have a BFD that I have tested, but gave up when I realized that I was getting drastically different "before" readings from one seat position to the next. In other words, I gave up on an EQ-based solution because any adjustments I made to one seat just threw the next one further out of whack.

For those of you who are having success with the SMS-1, have you metered before and after in several seat positions? Originally were your nulls and peaks not that different from one seat to the next? Are you just getting a decently-flat reading in one seat position only or are you finding EQ to be successful across a larger seating area? Can I ask many. many more questions?

_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#121438 - 12/23/05 10:07 AM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Equalization will not fully solve the problem of even frequency response across a broad area in an HT room. Room acoustics and proper speaker/sub phase are major factors to consider first. Multiple subs and acoustical treatments carefully positioned are far more effective at smoothing nodes. Still, an SMS-1 as icing on the cake is useful in further flattening response across the seats but it is unrealistic to expect a tabletop like curve. My SMS-1 is on order and I will be using it as the final tweak after postioning and getting the phasing right on my 2 600s and 2 500s next week.

In a single sub configuration the equalizer will help but across a narrower area, the sweet spot. Several people have taken the approach of measuring curves across the various seats and then averaging to get a better response across several seats rather than the best response in one seat. That seems to be a better implementation in any event whether one is using single or multiple subs, unless of course only the sweet spot really matters.
_________________________
John

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#121439 - 12/23/05 11:20 AM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
mrbooboy Offline
buff

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Bainbridge Island, WA
Given the size of my room (small), I haven't had to worry about my frequency response in multiple locations. I have a love seat in my room and the graphs don't change much in the two or three possible seating locations.

My room is primarily used for audio...thus, the small room works for me. When I listen to music, it is always a solo affair. Thus, I optimized my system for the sweet spot only. Yes, we do watch movies in there also, just not nearly as much listening to music (probably 80% music, 20% movies).

As you've pointed out, I suspect EQing a large room is a whole different ball game.

David
_________________________
--------- NEC 42" Plasma Axiom M60s(x3)/QS4s/M22s Denon 3805/3910 Outlaw 7700 SVS PC-Ultra

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#121440 - 12/23/05 01:50 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
bridgman Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5326
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>Can I ask many. many more questions?

Have you tried putting the EP350 on the coffee table yet ?

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#121441 - 12/23/05 02:02 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
In reply to:

Have you tried putting the EP350 on the coffee table yet ?



No, not on, but in place of. Didn't work! At some point after the Holidays, I'm going to check out some treatment options or, at the very least, hold a pillow behind my head.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#121442 - 12/23/05 02:24 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
richeydog Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Fresno, CA
Make sure you have the qs8's fully supported by soup cans too. Improves the spaciousness quite a bit.
_________________________
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP


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#121443 - 12/23/05 02:28 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Actually the soup cans have been chaged out to what I forget, but the soup was lunch.
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#121444 - 12/24/05 11:02 AM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
bridgman Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5326
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>Have you tried putting the EP350 on the coffee table yet ?
>>No, not on, but in place of. Didn't work!

Hmmm. If you have a few minutes over the holidays it wouldn't hurt to dig into this some more. I didn't have time to crunch enough numbers last time you were testing but maybe once the holiday rush dies down...

>>Actually the soup cans have been chaged out to what I forget, but the soup was lunch.

Some slightly dented cans of Green Giant Mexicorn. I went through a mouse infestation a few years ago and the mice learned to avoid the traps, so in desperation I started throwing canned food at them (inspired by Crocodile Dundee ) with surprising success.

My terriers were useless. We had indoctrinated them not to eat the family's pet rodents, so every time they saw a mouse I guess the hundred repetitions of "no, mustn't eat Tigger" flashed through their minds. On the other hand, any squirrel that gets within 100 feet of the house is either very fast or very dead.


Edited by bridgman (12/24/05 11:08 AM)

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#121445 - 12/27/05 01:46 PM Re: Velodyne SMS-1 (pics)
GregBe Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 35
Loc: San Jose, CA
Thanks for the pics mrbooboy.

Mine is definitely not as stable as I move my master volume up and down. In fact, my curves look dramatically different. I am still not sure if the problem is the SMS, the Axiom sub or my wacky room.

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