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#123330 - 01/07/06 03:51 PM Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
jrock65 Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 3
I've read that Axiom speakers are "bright".

I'm thinking of getting 5.1 speakers (M60 fronts) mainly for home theater use.

Are the Axiom speakers too bright? Do they lead to listening fatigue? Is it possible to reduce the brightness by turning down the treble setting?

Thanks.

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#123331 - 01/07/06 03:59 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Some say they are. They certainly give much more high "tactile" feedback. For instance, everything is very crisp and detailed in the high end range. That's what gives a great quality to them. I have the M22's, and it took a little bit to get used to all the high end I was missing. However, the M22's are considered as being "brighter" and more foreward speakers, meaning they reproduce audio very accurately, and arn't forgiving with bad recordings. Everything is "up front" and played just like it is played.

The M60's, on the other hand, are a tad bit more "laid back" and are not classified as "bright" as the M22's, mostly because the m22's have 2 5.25" woofers for midrange, the M60's have one.

I have heard people complain that the m22's are very bright, but have not heard people complain, if at all, that the m60's are bright.

I have the m22's and did indeed agree I was missing a lot of high end from an upgrade from really bad speakers, but it never bothered me as being bright or harsh. Many of the people who call axioms really bright have extremely reflective rooms. Metal tweeters will create lots of crisp high end sound that WILL sound harsh if your room is excessively reflective.

Anyways, I'm rambling. My answer to you is that if you set up the speakers correctly, the "brightness" will not be there. Axioms will have tons of detail in the high end that other speakers will leave out. Axioms give a very crisp and detailed high end that will let you hear every breath and guitar knick and squeek. It's amazing! Sometimes you hear all the "mouth noises" singers make. Kinda disguisting, but really cool at the same time that you can actually hear that kind of detail.
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M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#123332 - 01/07/06 04:49 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I do not feel the Axioms are bright at all. I have the M80s and have never had listener fatigue after hours upon hours of listening. The M2, M22, M60 and the M80s all have the same sonic signature. It is the M3 and M50s that are said to be a more laid back speaker in the Axiom line up.
_________________________
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#123333 - 01/07/06 05:29 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
UH OH,

This could be a long thread. I asked this very same question at this board about 400 years ago. There must have been a hundred zillion replies. I auditioned quite a few speakers before I ordered a pair of M22s only after I apologized to the forum members for using 'that' word. I auditioned many speakers I considered harsh sounding. I even brought a couple home. If you define 'b' as overextended highs, you would be wrong about the M22s. I would consider that issue a non-issue. However, as has been posted previously, they are more forward speakers, than you will find in BB or CC. The music or dialogue will seems to be right in front of you. You will not need much volume to make things seem right. If you like to listen at extreme volumes, it might be a bit much.

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#123334 - 01/07/06 10:43 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
Go look at the audio response as a function of frequency and tell me that they are bright!!!!!
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#123335 - 01/08/06 12:01 AM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Uh, Dan? Where'd you get the idea the 60s have less treble than the 22s? My understanding is that the 22s and the 60s have a fairly identical sound, other than the extra bass and presence from the 60s. The 3s and 50s are a little more laid back.
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#123336 - 01/08/06 12:30 AM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
Let me guess Jrock, you've been hanging out over at AVSforum...

I've got about 1500 posts racked up over there, and have heard it all. Everything from Harsh, Bright, Ear Bleeding, etc... what a joke.

There are a few people over there that like to give Axiom a bad name, not sure why, but they do. I've owned many brands of speakers through the years, and I really love my Axiom speakers, and most likely will never change brands again.

If possible check the Audition thread in the Hearing Things forum to see if someone lives close to you and will let you have a listen, or you could make use of the 30day in home guarantee. I"m betting you'll keep them...

Welcome to the boards...

Randy

_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#123337 - 01/08/06 12:47 AM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
JR, welcome. Wherever you read that, it simply isn't accurate. For a speaker to be "too bright" when being fed material which is well-produced with a flat response, the speaker would have to have a significantly elevated response over a broad area in the upper midrange/lower treble. Measurements show nothing of the sort and personal experience with good quality source material doesn't show it either. Speakers such as the Axioms which accurately reproduce what they've been fed will also reproduce the flaws in poor recordings. Using tone or equalization controls with such recordings can make them less objectionable.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#123338 - 01/08/06 09:20 AM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Ok...here's an unsubstantiated and unscientific observation made after following the Axiom forum for nearly five years now(has it been that long already?)...but, going back a few years there "Were" a number of complaints about the "b" word and listening fatigue connected with the M60s. Enough of those complaints that I felt obligated to go with the M50s instead of the M60s back about a year ago when I needed to update to floorstanders.

If I were to be needing floorstanders today, I would instead probably go with the M60s, as the number of complaints against them has fallen to near "zero" in the last ten or twelve months.

In addition; we now know that there have been changes made to the crossover network of the M80, and while we haven't been given the info that the M60 has undergone similar changes.....

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#123339 - 01/08/06 12:12 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
I don't find the m80 or m60 bright either. They are amazingly accurate speakers, but I was wondering why this issue keeps coming up with speakers exhibiting flat FR. It's a crtiticism sometimes levelled against any speaker with linear response which I always felt was its most desirable feature. I've heard the same criticism against PSBs, Paradigms and Mackies to name just three other companies. I guess I wasn't the only one wondering because when I picked up the December issue of Home Entertainment magazine last month it featured an article with PSB's Paul Barton doing listening tests at the NRC on this topic.

Interestingly he found that a certain small group of listeners tended to associate linear FR above 5000hz with "brightness" in a speaker. The 5000hz inflection point seemed to be the point above which those listeners preferred a gently declining ("warmer") FR curve even though accuracy of the recording was compromised.

So I think the phenomena is real for a certain minor group of people. The same ones who seem to like "warmer" sound. What I don't understand is why those users exhibiting this sensitivity don't simply lower the upper range response with treble control or equalization in the receiver.

By the way some of the loudest crazies who love to bash Axiom at AVS are retail audio merchants who feel threatened by internet sellers. One of them even goes so far to complain about ringing from aluminum drivers even though he admits to tintinitis in the ear where he hears the ringing.
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