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#123340 - 01/08/06 12:24 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
jake: a few months ago, Alan gave a good description on one of these threads of what is happening. Maybe someone can give the specific link.

If I recall correctly, he said that some of the source material is "adjusted" in the mid ranges to compensate for the boom boxes and other "cheap" speakers that are commonly used by many. Thus, when this material is played through "good" speakers which are neutral/ flat response, it seems that they are "bright."

I don't know that you can do much about that situation.
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#123341 - 01/08/06 12:34 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I find my Axioms to be very accurate and not coloring the sound bright or warm.

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#123342 - 01/08/06 01:32 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
In reply to:

By the way some of the loudest crazies who love to bash Axiom at AVS are retail audio merchants who feel threatened by internet sellers. One of them even goes so far to complain about ringing from aluminum drivers even though he admits to tintinitis in the ear where he hears the ringing.


John, I, of course, know exactly who you are talking about. I was amazed to see him appear in a Klipsch thread spouting the same denigrating insults he heaps on Axioms, and hyping the speaker brand he sells. It turns out that he sells ONLY that one brand, and introduces it into every thread in which he posts. He is a master of subtle marketing (or not so subtle, depending upon how you look at it).

He refers to the speakers which are the subject of the thread as:

1. "massively overpriced"
2. "phenomenally ugly"
3. "flawed because of their design"
4. "great speakers, right up until you find out what you're missing" (I'm particularly fond of this argument. He's saying, in essence, "If you only knew better, you wouldn't like these speakers, i.e. you're ignorant).

He continues with Klipsch are:

5. "OK, if you're an average listener" (more of the "you'd like these speakers only if you're ignorant" argument)
6. "I guess I'm just used to a much higher level of performance."
7. "I hereby give you permission to enjoy your system, despite all its limitations"

And believe me, that's just a small percentage of his garbage. He uses much the same trash in Axiom threads.

Another little trick of his is to point out all the brands (including Axiom) that people have traded in to buy his brand, thus implying that his brand MUST be superior or these people wouldn't have traded their speakers for his. Never mind that we could probably find just as many people, if not more, who have traded in HIS brand for other brands. ALL speaker brands get traded in, for pete's sake.

Get this! When people who own Klipsch object to being referred to as "average" and "not knowing what they're missing, he has the gall to say:

"Well, note that all I did was put in my 2¢ and.....At least I haven't personally attacked anyone here personally."

Oh sure! No one should take it personally if they are referred to as being ignorant. Don't you love it?

But, here is the topper! He admits that he has NEVER HEARD THE KLIPSCH SYSTEM THAT WAS THE SUBJECT OF THE THREAD! After making all those derogatory comments, the last post in the thread is his. It says:

"Well, I heard the Ultras today. I'll let it go at that. I just wanted people to know that, yes, I bothered to listen."

Just in case anyone is interested.

NEWBIE - Buying Klipsch - HELP!!

DISCLAIMER: I apologize to all for bringing the AVS dissention over to our relatively peaceful corner of the web. I do so only to point out to jrock65 that what you get on that forum, and for that matter, on all forums are OPINIONS.

It's OK to factor those opinions into the decision making process. Just don't make your decision based on opinions alone. The only way to know the sound of ANY speaker brand, and decide if that sound is for you, is to listen to it yourself.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#123343 - 01/08/06 02:31 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
We're up to 12 now guys. Let's keep 'em comin'. Jack, it's really hard to believe that dealers in Whatever, Kansas, or pic-a-town and state are that fearful of Axiom. I've always wondered why the AVS bashers seem to reserve their wrath for Axiom. What about the other online retailers. They don't seem to regard Rockets as threatening. What gives?

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#123344 - 01/08/06 03:47 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Ajax, just looking at that thread makes me want to rip on that guy. I'm so thankful the Axiom forums are so peaceful. Everyone is accepting of each others opinions. We arn't having a war over silly things. Everyone has an opinion, and once your opinion is voiced, it's your's, it's what you think, and no one should make fun of you for it.
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#123345 - 01/08/06 03:55 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13324
Loc: Iowa
I learned to stop hanging on AVS that much, it was raising my blood pressure.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#123346 - 01/08/06 04:17 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Ahhh! I read another thread. My blood pressure definately jumped up a few notches.

I love the many...accusations, pride issues, misreading of what someone read and making an accusation based on that misreading, fanboyism and claims of not bashing something when clearly the object is being bashed, personal opinions meaning everything in the world to people...yeah. And then, what makes everything really interesting is that the thread, instead of dealing what it was supposed to be about, deals with trying to calm everyone down and sort out all of the accusations. Once everything seems to be dieing down a bit, some random person comes in and says, "Hey, help me in deciding with this."
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#123347 - 01/08/06 05:17 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
jrock65 Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 3
Thanks for the replies guys. Axiom speakers seem like they're pretty good. I'm interested in this package:

http://axiomaudio.com/epic60_350main.html

I'm not really an audiophile (I am somewhat of a videophile though), so I don't need anything THAT fancy or the very best. As long as the speakers sound good and look good, I'm cool with that.

I just wanted to get assurance that the Axioms don't lead to fatigue becaue they're "too" bright.

Also, excuse my newbieness, but if speakers sound too bright (whether Axioms or anything else), can't you just make it less bright by turning down treble?


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#123348 - 01/08/06 05:24 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Trust me, Bruce. Rocket gets it share of the same garbage. The brand hasn't gotten much flack lately because there simply haven't been many recent threads concerning Rockets, while there have been a number of threads about Axiom over the past few months. Guys like the one in the Klipsch thread just focus on whatever speaker thread deals with a brand they dislike or whose success they view as threatening.

Recently one poster at AVS expressed an interest in an new Emotiva product soon to be released by av123. He wanted more information and said: "I guess I will have to go to the AV123 forums, which I assume will be very biased".

My reply:

"Of course people at av123 are biased. Do you feel you get unbiased opinions here [AVS forum]? Everyone here has their biases. The difference is, at av123, most, but not all, of those biases favor av123 products, while here we have a smörgåsbord of biases.

I'm one who believes there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion or, for that matter, an unbiased human being. I am skeptical of those who claim they, or their opinions, are unbiased. Sometimes, if the circumstances are right, we can get close to an unbiased opinion, but even that's rare.

Shoot, I can be watching a football game in which I have no vested interest in who is victorious, and I suddenly realize I'm rooting for one of them. When I start to examine why I'm pulling for that particular team, I find the answer can be something as simple as I don't like the other team's uniforms.

I don't feel there's anything wrong with having biases. The problems arise when one fails, or is unwilling, to recognize and admit their bias, and thus doesn't allow for, or try to prevent, those biases influencing their opinions or behavior.
"

Are we biased here? Of course we are. We happen to hold Axiom the company, and Axiom the product in high regard, and this IS the Axiom forum. Anyone who comes here for information should assume that bias, and allow for it. That being said however, many times other companies products are often recommended here. We do a pretty good job of keep the correct goal in mind, which is helping the one seeking information to obtain a system with which they will be happy. The same can not be said for all too many at the AVS forum.

_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#123349 - 01/08/06 05:30 PM Re: Axiom speakers too bright? Leads to fatigue?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13324
Loc: Iowa
jrock65, if you order, make sure you check out the Factory Outlet link on the Store page, you save 10% and they are still new speakers with the same warrantly.

The Epic 60-350 was my first order, I later ordered two more Qs8's for 7.1, and recently upgraded to an EP500 as my room is huge. You'll be very happy with that setup and be grinning from ear to ear just listening to the awesome sound.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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