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#131982 - 03/15/06 12:48 PM Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
speakerchooser Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 27
I have set up my speaker levels using the receiver and to my ears the sub sounds a little low. I am not an audiophile or anything so I do not totally trust my ears. What if I am just a closet distorted bass lover and don't know it ?

Has anyone used their receiver for this, then used a sound meter ? Did the results correlate ? Anyone know if receivers in general are known to be good for leveling sub to other receivers ?

Any suggestions ?

Some other info.
The levels are as follows
Left +7.5 dB
Right +7.5 dB
Center +6 dB
Sub –7.5 dB
I realize that since the sub is using it’s own amp they don’t really correlate.

My setup,
M60ti
VP150
S8
Velodyne DLS-4000 Sub
Yamaha RX-V2400
All speakers are set to small.
I am using the line level out of the Yamaha
LFE is set to cross over 80HZ
Sub internal low pass is bypassed.
The sub is self powered, 200Watts is the manu. claim.
The sub level(knob on back of sub) is half way between lowest and highest
Listening room about 18’ by 15’
Opens to a hallway(stairs and high ceiling behind halway and another room behind the left speaker. Opens to a another room to the left of the couch. There is a low pile carpet but the walls are fairly bare, the usual sheet rock wooden blinds.


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#131983 - 03/15/06 01:55 PM Re: Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

What if I am just a closet distorted bass lover and don't know it ?


We all are. I have a pretty good set of ears (to make up for the fact I'm ugly ) and while I was pretty close on ear-balling the mains and centre, I found that left to my own devices, I ran the surrounds "hot" (4dB over the mains & centre) and the sub extra hot (6-8dB over the mains and centre) And I'm the guy here that coined the derogatory term "junk jiggling bass."

Bren R.

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#131984 - 03/15/06 02:08 PM Re: Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
speakerchooser Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 27
Thanks Bren,

So the RX is probably right ? That kind of makes sense. I've never actually heard crane smash into a building like T3, so my best references are new movie theaters and clubs with good sound systems. Not exactly an A/B comparison and I can't tell if those are correct or just what people like.

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#131985 - 03/15/06 02:14 PM Re: Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Maybe, maybe not... depends on how good the auto-levels is. If you do have an SPL meter, check it with that.

I was more suggesting that setting by ear isn't the most clear-cut way. Most people can balance 2-channel by ear but there's the whole persistance of memory thing once you start getting above that.

Bren R.

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#131986 - 03/15/06 09:12 PM Re: Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7412
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Speakerchooser, I like to set my sub in a two channel system so that I barely notice it. I like it mainly for extension and not slam. For HT, on the other hand, I run it a bit hot. I really like the slam and impact during movies.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#131987 - 03/15/06 09:40 PM Re: Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10403
Chooser, yes it's quite likely that the setting of the sub level is accurate(at least as accurate as a manual setting using a separate meter, which isn't really that accurate), but since you paid good money for it you're expecting to hear more. The idea is that the sub shouldn't be heard as a separate sound source, but rather that the speakers are putting out more bass. Of course, it is your money, so if you really want to, raise the sub level 3-4dB over what was calibrated.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#131988 - 03/16/06 09:46 AM Re: Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
jinhan Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 156
When I set up my subwoofer manually (using an SPL meter), I was surprised at how quiet the subwoofer sounded. Our ears aren't as capable of hearing low frequencies, so we'll percieve the the subwoofer to be quieter than it really is when using test tones.

If you really wanted to make sure that your sound levels are properly set, I would get a Radio Shack SPL Meter.



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#131989 - 03/16/06 10:07 AM Re: Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
Gena Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 120
Let me offer my point of view.

I don't agree that setting the levels with just a meter is always a better choice. First, I don't listen to the music with a meter, I normally use my ears . Second, the whole thing of meters being properly calibrated, what weighting curve to use - A or C can make it even more difficult.

One the other hand setting the level by the ear by comparing the loudness of 40Hz-80Hz pink noise on the sub with 500Hz-2000Hz on the mains can be misleading as well because our ears have very different sensitivities at these frequencies.

So I use a combined approach. First, I use the meter to set the levels and I usually set the sub 3-4 dB hot.

Second, I set the crossovers on the mains and the sub at 80Hz and use a sweep frequency tone from 15Hz to 150Hz . I use the DVE DVD but I'm sure there are plenty of other sources.

The thing I'm looking for is a smooth transition at around or 80Hz and here is when I use the ears. Since I'm comparing the sub and the mains at the same freq and at the same time the ear's sensitivity should play a lesser role. If the transition is not smooth with the loudness deepening or increasing I change the sub volume control accordingly.

Hope it helps

Gena

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#131990 - 03/16/06 10:08 AM Re: Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
speakerchooser Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 27
Thanks Guys,

That helps a lot. Listening at the receiver calibrated level, I can still hear low bass color in the bass line so it's probably right.

Since the receiver has attenuated to -7.5 dB is it better to turn down the level on the sub itself, recalibrate, and let the receiver run LFE line out higher from the DSP ? Perhaps higher out of the receiver noise floor ?

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#131991 - 03/16/06 10:48 AM Re: Sub level adjust Auto vs. Manual
speakerchooser Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 27
Thanks Gena,

Hadn't read yours before my last post.

As you mentioned, setting by ear with two different frequency tones is too difficult for me.

My receiver has a "Low Frequency Test" which lets you play a number of tones from 35 Hz to 250 Hz. It also lets you choose which speaker will play it. I thought this would be perfect for setting the sub, even though you can't adjust relative levels while in this mode. However when you select a Front the SUB plays with it. Doesn't seem to matter how you configure speaker size or setup or "FRONT, SUB, BOTH" for LFE either. Could be I'm just a retard and can't figure it out, but I seem to have tried every combination.

The DVD sounds like a good idea.

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