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#141390 - 06/10/06 10:47 PM My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
Ok, I know I had another RealTraps post below, I'm hoping I can keep this one on topic. I'm looking for any advice on my results.

Before I ran the test today, I reset my Denon 2805 and ran the AVR's auto setup with microphone. Below are the results from the Denon setup:

M60s L/R were set to "Large"
VP150 was set to "Large"
Sub "Yes"
All 4 Qs8's set to "Small"
80hz crossover LFE+Main

Delay(dist.)
FL and FR 13ft
Center 12.6
Sub 27.3ft
SL 8ft
SR 8.6ft
SBL 7.3ft
SBR 7.3ft

Levels and SPL meter measurement
FL +8dB 78dB
FR +7dB 77dB
C +5.5dB 77dB
SR +9dB 78dB
SBR +7.5dB 78dB
SBL +7.5dB 78dB
SL +6.5dB 78dB
Subwoofer -6dB 78dB

So, I was pretty happy with the Auto Setup results, however, I did make the following changes:

L/R M60's changed them to "Small"
Center VP150 changed it to "Small"
Questioned the Sub delay of 27.3ft (normal per manual)
I manually adjusted all the speakers to 78dB's.

Also, I had previously performed the Subwoofer crawl, and determined the EP500 sounded better dead center below my screen, below my VP150 center. I mounted the VP150 up higher on the wall, so there is about 6 inches of space between that and the EP500. It looks cool anyway. I know most of you said the left corner would be better as it would be further from the opening into the larger room. We'll see, I may put it back in the corner.

Below is the first graph I did with RealTraps. The CD comes with a pink noise track and your supposed to adjust the volume to 70dB's for the test, however, I actually tried it at about 78dB's. Must explain why the overall graph is higher on the chart compared to my second attempt below.

Also, the EP500 was placed near the left corner during this first graph. This may explain the change in some of the dips in the second graph, as I moved the EP500 to the center of the wall below the screen. The microphone was placed on a tripod in the primary listening position.



The graph below is my second attempt today. I adjusted the main volume to 70dB's per the RealTraps instructions. Also, the EP500 is in the center of the screen back wall below the VP150. Don't have a picture of that yet.

Here is my second graph from today. Overall it has the same pattern ups/downs as the first graph. I am concerned about the low dips at around 50hz, 150hz, and 260hz...



Here are a few pictures of the room to give you an idea of what the room looks like. Sorry the pictures aren't the best. The overall room is about 30ft x 30ft with 9ft ceilings. As you can see the Theater area where the speakers sit is set back 6 feet from the main room to make it more private. I'm sure most of my problem stems from the large open room.

Any advice is appreciated from the experts. Overall my sound is great, so maybe I should just enjoy and stop worrying.








_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#141391 - 06/11/06 12:20 AM Re: My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response? [Re: SirQuack]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10309
Well, Randy, about the only comment on the graphs is that the peak around 38Hz and smaller one around 57Hz appears to be the room mode relative to the 30' dimension. It also appears that the mode wasn't significantly affected by the changed sub position, and if anything the second graph appears to be a bit worse overall.

Possibly, as you inferred, the advice for you and Mark Johnson(he of the room that sucks)should be to add watching the making of room effects to making sausage and laws as being things better off left unseen.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#141392 - 06/11/06 12:38 AM Re: My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response? [Re: JohnK]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7374
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Quote:

Possibly, as you inferred, the advice for you and Mark Johnson(he of the room that sucks)should be to add watching the making of room effects to making sausage and laws as being things better off left unseen.




John, I had to reread that sentence about five times before it made sense. I get it now.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#141393 - 06/11/06 12:58 AM Re: My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response? [Re: JohnK]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17699
Loc: NoVA
John, I think you are absolutely right. It is a formula for depression--unless you've got an unlimited budget and completely free rein in the design and furnishing of the room.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#141394 - 06/11/06 01:02 AM Re: My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response? [Re: Ken.C]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Quote:

John, I think you are absolutely right. It is a formula for depression--unless you've got an unlimited budget and completely free rein in the design and furnishing of the room.




That is for sure, as I suggested to Randy before, throw the realtrap cd out the window and just enjoy the system. If it sounds good what else do ya need.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#141395 - 06/11/06 02:07 AM Re: My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response? [Re: St_PatGuy]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10309
Very good, Sean; and I certainly appreciate the confidence you showed in me by being willing to persevere through the agony of five readings!
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#141396 - 06/11/06 02:11 AM Re: My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response? [Re: JohnK]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7374
Loc: Glendale, Arizona

That was frighteningly close to my thought process!
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#141397 - 06/11/06 09:18 PM Re: My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response? [Re: Wid]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4739
Loc: western canada
Yup, i'm onboard with this one too.
Sometimes you just have to sit, sigh, think to yourself "ah crap on a stick", and give in to what you've got.

Lovely graphs though.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#141398 - 06/11/06 09:33 PM Re: My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response? [Re: chesseroo]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
Ok Ok. I made a few changes after reading many online articles regarding sub placement. For now I've moved my m60's as close togethor as possible, not to interfere with the 10ft wide screen.

The EP500 is now in the far left corner about 6" From the left wall and 8" from the back wall. The m60's are about 6" from the back wall and exactly the same distance from the left/right walls. Right now they are not toed in at all.

My wife likes country a lot, ok I like it also depending on what we are listening to...Right now we have some Alan Jackson cranked up pretty loud. It sounds unbelievable.

Before that we listened to a Classical CD we bought for our kids when they were babies, "Build you baby's brain". Mozart, Beethovan, Handel, Schubert, Vivaldi, Bach, and others are included on the CD.

I think I have these Axioms imaging fabulous right now.

ps: I might try one more graph to see if there are any improvements.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#141399 - 06/11/06 10:09 PM Re: My 2nd attempt at graphing my room response? [Re: SirQuack]
Rapmon Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 66
Loc: Massachusetts
Randy, If you set the M60's to large instead of small, without looking at the graph, what is the difference in the sound? If they are your main speakers, excluding the sub-woofer, wouldn't you want them to be set to large?
_________________________
".....We don't need no thought control..." Axiom M60's CSW m60's HK avr 240

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