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#147052 - 09/05/06 01:03 PM Reflecting noise problem?
jhunt17 Offline
local

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 225
Loc: Ironton, Ohio
I have built my basement into a homemade dedicated theater room. My father and I built it. I am very proud of how it turned out, but I am not sure if I have a reverberation problem, reflection problem, whatever. I have the Epic 60 500 in my room. The room is 26 x 9 x 7 or something close to that, but I notice when I run the auto setup for my Yamaha reciever. One of the test tones is a sharp quick noise that seems to echo. If I clap my hands it does seem to reflect alot. I have carpet throughout the room, but all my walls are smooth and flat. I also have soundproof mat behind the walls and in the ceiling. I have a couch, recliner and love seat that are all cloth. My question is, Do I need some drapes or wall treatments? Will this take care of that problem, If I do have a problem. Will I notice a difference if I add these? I am sorry if I did not describe my problem well enough. Unless you can actually hear it, it is hard to discribe.

Thanks for the help
_________________________
7.1 theater room
60 fronts vp180 center 4 qs8's ep500 sub

3.0 tv room
m3's vp150 center

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#147053 - 09/05/06 01:55 PM Re: Reflecting noise problem? [Re: jhunt17]
inthedeck Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 164
Congrats on the room. Secondly, I am not sure how good the Yamaha set-up utility is...so maybe an SPL meter from Radio Shack might be an option?

Lastly, I figure you may refer to this thread: BassTraps ala Sirquack which might provide you with some info. on your ordeal.

Also, you might want to have someone take a small mirror, and walk around the room (while you sit in the primary listening position) and mark off places where you are able to see the speakers. Then, you can create more 'traps' or hide the reflection zones. Others may be able to explain more, on this topic, however.

Good luck.

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#147054 - 09/05/06 02:48 PM Re: Reflecting noise problem? [Re: jhunt17]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Hey J, Inthedeck is right on the money. You can check out my thread, but my guess is that you need to treat your walls and/or ceiling with frz's (first reflection points). I would start with the walls first. Also, bass traps in the corners are actually the most important. Drapes and other items can help, but real absorbtion can only be achieved with proven materials. If you go the foam route, make sure the company provides absorbtion specifications based on actual lab tests. There is a lot of foam out there that is junk, and some that is pretty good for frz's, however, for bass traps you need rigid fiberglass or other similar product for the best low absorption.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#147055 - 09/06/06 12:54 PM Re: Reflecting noise problem? [Re: SirQuack]
jhunt17 Offline
local

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 225
Loc: Ironton, Ohio
Ok the more I read the more confussed I get. I understand creating the graphs and all of that, but what does it mean it terms of what it does for my ears? When I clap my hands I hear the echo. First do I want a room where there isn't an echo or should there be some echo? I read a second ago about your speakers being 38 percent away from the back wall, so if that is the case my speakers will be where I sit. That is kinda ridiculous. Anyway, I digress. Back to my questions. I am confussed about creating traps using oc 703 for this reason. As I look at the numbers it disproportionatly cuts down on different frequencies. So in my inept world of thought wouldn't that cause a greater problem with sub noise and shrink you output from your other speakers? I guess I am not understanding things correctly. Also, in terms of what it does for my ears, How much of a difference will I hear. Will it allow my sub to sound clearer along with my other speakers and will this improvement be worth what it costs to do it? I think I will post some pics of my room to see what you guys think if I can figure out how to do this. Thanks for your help.
_________________________
7.1 theater room
60 fronts vp180 center 4 qs8's ep500 sub

3.0 tv room
m3's vp150 center

Top
#147056 - 09/06/06 03:16 PM Re: Reflecting noise problem? [Re: jhunt17]
inthedeck Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 164
I beleive that you do not want an echo in the room. This is what causes bad imaging, and sound, as the sound waves are reflecting off of multiple points in the room.

As for the traps, they will reduce the amount of negative effects in the sound, and will allow for everything to be clearer. At least that is my understanding. Randy may have more to offer.

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#147057 - 09/06/06 03:47 PM Re: Reflecting noise problem? [Re: jhunt17]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
That main goal is to get as flat as response as possible, but bringing up the nulls, and taming the peaks. I would recommend you read this http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html There are tons and tons of research out there done in professional laboritories showing the success of RF, Mineral Wool, and similar products. Why else would expert sound engineers use them in their studios.

You do not want a room that sounds to dead, but that would only happen if you treated every square inch of all your walls/ceilings. Is misunderstood the 38% guidline. The best place to sit is 38% from the back wall, not your speakers. The second best place to sit is 38% from the back wall, if the 1st option is not available. Sitting 50% from the front/rear walls is bad, and along the rear wall also. These locations are where bass likes to accummulate.

Again, the goal is to get as flat as response as possible, reduce comb filtering, and improve peaks and nulls. Spend some time reading the articles on Realtraps.com and watching the videos if you have broadband.

For me the sound improvement is very much noticeable, it was well worth the project and cheap cost. By the way, the bass in my room and sub LFE has tightened and much improved as well. I can distinguish the different notes easier, instead of having ONE Note Bass, as many experience with their subs.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#147058 - 09/07/06 04:24 PM Re: Reflecting noise problem? [Re: SirQuack]
jhunt17 Offline
local

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 225
Loc: Ironton, Ohio
Ok, I am going to try and post some pics so everyone can help me understand what is going on in my room. As I noted before, when I clap my hands I do get a ringing noise, that I finally figured out that would not help me with my sound, SOOOO this is where I would like everyone to chime in on what to do. First, I have a question about sub placement. I have had it next to the tv on the right side, now as you can see I put it next to my chair. But what I want to know is, which spot is better and what test tone do I use to calibrate it with my other speakers. Do I just use the pink noise that I use for the fronts, center, and surrounds, or do I use the low frequency test tone and tune it to the same SPL levels of the other speakers? As far as treatments go. What should I do and how can I make these things cheaply? What if any difference will I notice in my sound, especially bass. I notice when I do the frequency sweeps with my AVIA it can drop and explode at certain frequencies. Very low it gets LOUD. I'll have to do these again to really know. I just figured out lately that those things are bad. So after a long winded mess of disorganized questions I leave you all to descramble them all. Thanks everyone. I can't figure out how to post pictures. How do I do that?
_________________________
7.1 theater room
60 fronts vp180 center 4 qs8's ep500 sub

3.0 tv room
m3's vp150 center

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