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#159398 - 02/20/07 04:04 PM Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan.
ZZen Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 23
Hi,
I'm planning on doing a 4.0 setup. I'm thinking either Paradigms (the original plan) but have now come across Axiom. I know this forum will be biased to Axiom but I hope for as much objectivity as possible :-)

My room is a small condo living room. The living room is only about 10 ft from fireplace to back wall. Couch is against back wall facing fireplace (tv will be above it). My ears will be only approx 7.5 to 8 ft from front of 13" deep speakers. One side of the living room is open all the way to the kitchen but the speakers will be in the (imaginary) living room border or about 10ft x 12 ft or so.

It will be a 4.0 system (so no sub). I want really good 2 channel for music, but some surround for entertaining movies. Since no sub is involved the mains need to have decent bass (not thundering though).

Im considering either Paradigm Studio 20's w/ ADP 190's. These are bookshelf that I would shelf mount (I know stands would be better though). The Studio 20's have great bass from what I've read. I've heard they are very good and detailed even at low volume (for my close proximity listening).

Now since I came across Axiom I'm thining maybe some M50's with QS4's. The M22's need to have a sub so they are out. The M60's have a bigger footprint than M50's ( Small space, grrr).

I've read the M50's really shine at louder volumes. Will I still be happy with them at low volumes (most of the time)? I think I might be too close to them at only 7.5 to 8 ft. I am able to put them 7-8 ft apart though.

About the QS4's, well they would have to go wall mounted on the back wall which the couch is against. I can spread them out apart aways, but would like to moutn them up high towards the top of my 8'8" cieling (mounted at say 8 ft) for aethetic reasons (want to put a big painting on wall behind couch and don't want to lose the visual 'flow' if I had the speakers mounted mid height up the wall. Will they still sound good up high? Especially considering the Im only 8 ft from the mains? Seems like a steep angle from the mains way up to the surrounds?

Any opinions would be great both on my consideration of the Paradigms and of the specific Axiom questions.

This is my first post here and I've spent about 6 hours reading threads in the last two days. Love it!

Thanks!

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#159399 - 02/20/07 09:33 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: ZZen]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10388
ZZ, welcome. My thought is that you would be best served by the M60s and that 2" more depth shouldn't cause you to hesitate. A common suggestion is that the surrounds be placed on the back wall in your situation, spread as widely as possible and about 3' above ear level. Many are set slightly higher than that and what you propose should work well.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#159400 - 02/20/07 10:14 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: JohnK]
Jordan Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/29/06
Posts: 165
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Agreed. I didn't even realize that the M50s had a smaller cabinet than the M60s. Nonetheless, I would certainly think that sneaking in 2 inches of depth is doable.

Cheers,

J

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#159401 - 02/20/07 11:04 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: Jordan]
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
To answer the question aimed directly to the M50: Yes; the M50s sound great at lower volumes.

The M50s are, of course, the more laid-back of the Axioms, but if that is the presentation someone is looking for, they are a fabulous speaker. For most TV viewing they quietly go about their business unless the programming asks them to sing out loud, and then they certainly do!! But they are just as accurate while playing softly as they are when called upon to have some real fun!
Rich.

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#159402 - 02/21/07 12:31 AM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: ZZen]
duckman Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 312
Loc: kansas
I have my q's mounted quite high, had to clear a doorway. That would put them about 7 ft. I listen reclined with my head quite low, say 2 ft., with exceptional results. I used the FMB's and angled them down a little to give the top woofer a little more space, plus my room is pretty narrow (10 ft). I would suggest you try the q's regardless of which mains you choose.
I havn't heard the studios but I did audition monitor line last year and preferred my m3's. The studio 20's are supposed to sound similar to the m-22's FWIW.
_________________________
Just say No to HDMI

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#159403 - 02/21/07 05:53 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: duckman]
ZZen Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 23
Hey guys. Thanks for the replies!

I was wondering if sitting relatively close to the M50's (7.5 to 8 ft) would cause the soundstage and/or imaging to suffer. Any thoughts on that? I guess the M22 might be better in that area (just not enough bass I think).

What to do.....

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#159404 - 02/21/07 05:54 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: ZZen]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17775
Loc: NoVA
Nah, should be fine. I was about that close to mine. They take a little careful positioning, but you should be OK.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#159405 - 02/21/07 09:15 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: ZZen]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
If you are planning on watching movies with this system, I highly recommend adding a subwoofer.

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#159406 - 02/21/07 10:08 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: ZZen]
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Quote:

Hey guys. Thanks for the replies!

I was wondering if sitting relatively close to the M50's (7.5 to 8 ft) would cause the soundstage and/or imaging to suffer. Any thoughts on that? I guess the M22 might be better in that area (just not enough bass I think).

What to do.....




I don't know for sure what TO do, but I sure know what NOT to do! Don't stick them in cabinets and aim one of them at the side of a fireplace if you want good imaging.
Rich.

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#159407 - 02/22/07 02:36 AM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: F107plus5]
ZZen Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 23
Ok, I've been re-thinking things a bit. I think that I don't really want to take up the floorspace of my small living room with towers. Although I was initially planning to skip the sub I think some M22 wall mounted with the EP 125 to round out the lower end (along with a bit of help for movies) might be a good combo for my condo setup. QS4 in back. No centre. How does the EP125 compare to the Paradigm PDR 8 I used to have setup?

I think this would be a nice combo for great 2 channel music and fun movies for my small space and without blowing out the neighbors with too big a sub.

Thoughts?

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#159408 - 02/22/07 03:45 AM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: ZZen]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10388
Sure, the M22s plus a good sub(what I use)are excellent. The EP125 would probably be fairly described as closely comparable to the PDR8. For a relatively small and inexpensive sub which is a bit stronger you might also consider the Hsu STF-1 for about $250.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#159409 - 02/22/07 04:06 AM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: ZZen]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Sounds like a great plan and you would be surprised by the amount of base the M22's are capable of, it's just that it tends to get overshadowed by the detail that the 22's have and alot has to do with the recordings. Not that a sub doesn't fill it out even more but they do play well into the 60hz range.

Here is quote from post that ctown did a little while ago..

"When I auditioned at Jakewash's place it was so true about his M22's. I played some Bob Marley and it was recorded with a heavy bass track that no way the speakers sounded "lean" as some would say. Conversely, Neil Young's live recording from the CD "WELD" really revealed the less than optimal recording."
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#159410 - 02/22/07 10:04 AM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: JohnK]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
Quote:

Sure, the M22s plus a good sub(what I use)are excellent. The EP125 would probably be fairly described as closely comparable to the PDR8. For a relatively small and inexpensive sub which is a bit stronger you might also consider the Hsu STF-1 for about $250.




You might want to check out the X-Sub from av123 as well, bang for your buck sub (for $200).
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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#159411 - 02/22/07 11:45 AM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: ZZen]
DanielBMe Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Toronto - ON
Hey Zzen,

I was in the exact same position as you. You might have read my one of my posts aleady. Smallish condo, 800sq ft and wanted something that would fit in without being too bulky and taking up the valuable space. I know what it's like to constantly rethink things. I went back and forth from M22's to M50's constantly for about 3weeks and had the exact same questions you did. I even included a rough layout of my home. I can honestly say I had an easier time buying my condo then deciding on the speakers. In the end I placed my order on Monday for the M50's and the 150 Centre, and an HSU STF 3 sub. Rears are coming later.

My reasoning was I had a choice of two tv stands that I liked for the price. Both oddly enough from Costco. One was 80" long and the other was 60" long. I have a 42" LCD. I figured that if I got the 80inch stand I could put the m22's on the stand on each side of the tv or get the smaller stand and put the towers basically taking up the same space more or less. My other reason was that I thought floor standing speakers in HG Cherry (free upgrade) made for a sexyclassycool look as well as puts upgradeitis away for a long time. From everything I read here, it appears either way you can't really make a mistake. In the end I just went with my gut feeling as to what I really wanted in my heart. I think when it comes to space the sub for me is the hardest item to place in a condo. It would be nice if you could get a really good quality sub that fits under a coffee table
_________________________
M22's v3, 2 x EP500v3, VP150v3, QS4's, Denon 3808CI

My Botswana Safari photos
http://smu.gs/R41Byt

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#159412 - 02/22/07 09:33 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: DanielBMe]
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Yer gonna make me cry here! I would love to have my M50s in HG Cherry!! Absolutely Love them....even more than I do now!
Rich.



.....of course my wife voted for black, with no chance for a veto.


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#159413 - 02/23/07 09:16 AM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: DanielBMe]
HAY Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 720
Loc: Burlington, Ontario
Quote:

It would be nice if you could get a really good quality sub that fits under a coffee table




It think thats may be where the EP400 would come in handy
_________________________
High Gloss Cherry
M60 VP150 QS8
Open for Auditions but please don't drool on the High Gloss

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#159414 - 02/23/07 03:06 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: DanielBMe]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10886
Loc: Central NH
Quote:

It would be nice if you could get a really good quality sub that fits under a coffee table




Why not get two and make them the coffee table?


_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#159415 - 02/23/07 03:41 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: MarkSJohnson]
DanielBMe Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Toronto - ON
Quote:

Quote:

It would be nice if you could get a really good quality sub that fits under a coffee table




Why not get two and make them the coffee table?

LOL now that would be interesting. I can only imagine watching a movie like Jurasik Park and having the beers jumping off the table. I guess you could cut beer bottle sized holes in the table so they don't jump out...




_________________________
M22's v3, 2 x EP500v3, VP150v3, QS4's, Denon 3808CI

My Botswana Safari photos
http://smu.gs/R41Byt

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#159416 - 02/23/07 06:17 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: DanielBMe]
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
...you could drown in the suds.....

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#159417 - 02/26/07 05:45 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: F107plus5]
ZZen Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 23
Hello again,

Thanks againg for all the input.

I'm currently awaitng a colour/grill sample to see how it matches my room. However, the tracking for it indicates it has been misrouted or something. Axiom has been a bit unresponsive to my email inquiry about this. *shrug*

Anyways, still deciding between Axiom and Paradigm. Thanks for all your help. Oh and yeah the dual sub coffee table idea is superb!

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#159418 - 02/26/07 05:50 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: DanielBMe]
ZZen Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 23
DanielBMe - I hear ya about the decision making process. It's not easy! Have you got your M50's yet? It would be cool to see a pic of your condo/room with the M50's in place. I'm thinking either the M22's (if I go Axiom) or the Pradign Studio 20's.

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#159419 - 02/26/07 07:52 PM Re: Please help w/ new 4.0 setup (M50/QS4) plan. [Re: DanielBMe]
PDXGuy Offline
buff

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 45
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Quote:

It would be nice if you could get a really good quality sub that fits under a coffee table




You can...

SB12-Plus
_________________________
Steve Axiom M60v2, VP100v2, SVS SB12-Plus Yamaha HTR-5990, Oppo DV-981HD Samsung LN-S4692D

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