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#162484 - 04/03/07 12:10 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Lorenzo1000]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3875
Loc: Up yonder
Send them back. Or, that is what I’d do – if you care. I’ll say it one more time. It is irrelevant how much power your amps are outputting or if it’s loud enough for you or your friends or your neighbors. They are not supplying maximum available current without shutting down. This should not be happening. They claim to be rated for a 4 ohm load, so they should be able to carry the load without shutting down. It just doesn’t get any simpler than that. You praise Emotiva for working with you. Well, they should be. Their product is not performing as it should. They just don’t have that many customers with a set of speakers to push their amps to their limit, or are willing to give it a try if they do own them. You have the speakers and you are giving their amps a heck of a work out. How many other M80 owners actually push them this hard??? Not that many, if any. It’s just too loud and probably scares the hell out of most sane individuals that are not experiencing sever hearing loss.

For comparison’s sake (only because I know you like comparisons), when I had my M80’s in my great room powered with my Rotel RB 1080, I could pin the volume to max for as long as I wanted and it would not go into over current or clipping. (Granted, it wasn’t all that long as it was simply too friggin loud for me and my neighbors.) When I moved the 80’s to the theater room and bought some Wharfedale Opus 2’s for this system, I can still pin the volume for as long as I like without shutting the amp down or clipping. The Opus 2’s are a 6 ohm speaker not nearly as efficient as the 80’s, but with much larger drivers. In other words, they have comparable current requirements even though the resistance is higher.

My great room is 28 X 32 with a vaulted, 23’ ceiling peak and 10’ walls. Much more cubic space than your room.

My Axioms are now being powered by a lil ol’ Marantz receiver with a measly 125 wpc / 8 ohm. Twin M22’s as a center (4 ohm) and the M80’s across the front. Q8’s all around the back. Same thing as when the Rotel was driving them……volume pinned and no shut down and no clipping. And this is just single amp with six taps for the channels.

My past three HK’s (745, 7300, 7200) exhibited the same qualities……no clipping or shut down with the volume pinned.

Your Emotiva is defective. I don’t care what sales pitch they throw at you or how you or anyone else tries to rationalize it, it should not be shutting down. If you’re “over driving” them now with the volume at around 90%, what will the threshold be in a year?? 80%, 70%??

Emotiva’s look like one heck of a bargain and they sound like a great company to work with. But they are young and their product will have some growing pains until they get the bugs worked out. I’m sure that if you are patient, and they are open to the possibility that they have a problem here, you may be OK in the end, if you decide to keep it. If they continue to come up with excuses trying to convince you that the problem is your speakers and not their amps, I’d not hesitate to ask for my money back.

Why don't you send Alan an email and get his opinion? He's gone through this numerous times already trying to smoke amps / receivers to see if they will drive Axiom products.
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#162485 - 04/03/07 12:22 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Ken.C]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16259
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
It is, but it takes less power to reach that level in a smaller room, due to room reinforcement. All else being equal, (and barring peculiar geometries which result in significant cancellation) the sound waves that sum at the listening position will have greater amplitude in a smaller room due to reflections traveling a shorter distance.
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"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#162486 - 04/03/07 12:24 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: michael_d]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
I appreciate everyone's advice.

Just to make sure we are clear. They have never said it was my speakers. Dan and Mark from AV123 have been in this business for over 30 years and I'm pretty confident that he is being honest.

The amp IS giving me 300 watts RMS into 4ohms. Their top engineers, while Bugbitten was at their facility can prove this time and time again with any of the amps they test.

They are NOT defective, whatever you think. It has all been explained above. Any amp WILL clip if driven past its limits, I don't care if you have a Rotel or whatever. You say yours did not clip, what facts or equipment do you have to back that statement.

My little Denon will also go past the same volume point, but start to sound like crap and you can tell it is straining/clipping. The Emotiva sounds like many more expensive amps I've heard upto the point that you've reached its limits, then the built in protection kicks in, not sure why that is a defect.

Bugbitten, I'm anxious the hear about your recent visit.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#162487 - 04/03/07 12:25 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: pmbuko]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
thanks Peter, on that positive note.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#162488 - 04/03/07 12:55 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Randy,

I don't understand why the waveform limiter is causing the amplifier to shut down. The explanation of a "bad" waveform limiter is even more suspect when you were sourcing less than 120W from the amplifier. I am sorry but it just does not make sense to me.

Here are some critical questions that you may want to ask yourself as you work towards making a decision:

1. Am I happy with an amplifier that is rated 300W into 4 Ohms and is only capable of less than 120W into 4 Ohms?
2. If I am happy with 1, am I still getting good value for my money?
3. Do I trust Emo?

I feel for you as you try to resolve this issue but at least it's not a death sentence .

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#162489 - 04/03/07 01:42 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Mojo]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
Did you not read the response further up on this page? My findings of 120 watts, were by using a Radio Shack SPL meter. Yes I trust Emotiva. If you follow AV123 over the years you would be more familiar with the founders of the company. As mentioned above, their testing over the last week with true lab equipment is showing 20+ dB jumps during dynamic passages. So, from one meter distance when I'm showing peaks of 116dB's, they are seeing 130dB's, which if you do the math exceeds the 300watts spec.

I don't claim to be an engineer like some of you, and don't claim to understand all the math. I do know they are a strong company, that makes great products for themselves as well as many top brand name companies.

I just wish some of you would do a little reasearch on a company before jumping to conclusions, like there giving me some sales pitch. I know you didn't make that statement.

And no, I don't work for Emotiva, yet.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#162490 - 04/03/07 01:55 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Randy,

Yes, I did read your previous post.

When they claim 300W into 4 Ohms, I interpret that as RMS and not peak. And how reflective is their environment? Also, I would expect an audio amplifier company to test amplifier power levels by using a sound meter. They need to connect a "high-quality" power meter into the circuit to establish the output levels.

I still suggest that you approach them about the waveform limiter, and, as I posted before, ask for documented test plans, test specifications and test results.

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#162491 - 04/03/07 02:01 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Mojo]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
So their explanation about the Wave Form Limiter and the resister that controls the input makes no sense to you?

I'm sure they have the best test equipment available as most amp companies do, otherwise, I don't know how they could provide research/engineering/design for other companies.

Thanks
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#162492 - 04/03/07 02:03 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
Randy, it would seem that you've already made the decision to keep the amp. So... keep the amp.
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I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#162493 - 04/03/07 02:07 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Quote:

So their explanation about the Wave Form Limiter and the resister that controls the input makes no sense to you?





I understand how the waveform limiter works. I just don't understand why it would shut the amp down. The limiter should simply decrease the amp's gain...not turn it off. BTW, this is very similar to what the EP600 does...it just does it using a DSP.

I am sure Emo have the best equipment. Now let's get them to use it so that they can solve this problem . I'm certainly keen on buying one of their amps in the future so I'd like to see them succeed.

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