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#162524 - 04/04/07 10:10 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: bugbitten]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Quote:

Quote:

How large are the toroids in the Outlaws spread across 5 or 7 channels? I know each amp on the mps-1 has its own 350VA Toroid or 2.45KVA total for 7 amps.




I'll have to find the size (I bet Gonk knows), but the 7500 and 7700 have the same 2 toroids. Must be big for the 7500 to weigh 80 lbs.




I still haven't found the sizes but Gonk has photos:

http://www.prillaman.net/outlaw_pics/ (about halfway down)

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#162525 - 04/04/07 10:24 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: bugbitten]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Seems pretty stable in the lower freq's. Guys, I don't have two meters, just the one. So your telling me what I was doing last night, won't even get me in the ballpark?

Mojo, if I do your pink noise test and find out from axiom the ohms with pink noise will that work? How does this account for dynamic peaks during songs?


_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#162526 - 04/04/07 10:51 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: bugbitten]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
From the Outlaw Manual.

Your new power amplifier is a state of the art, high performance, audio
component. It is built utilizing totally complementary circuitry from input to
output. The high current power supply is driven by custom-designed torrodial
transformers (Model 7200 @ 2.0 KVA / Model 7125 @ 1.6 KVA / Model 7075 @
800 VA) with two separate windings for each of the seven channels. The per
channel filter capacitance of the Model 7200 is 22,600 uF, while Model 7125
measures 20,000 uF, and the Model 7075 comes in at 16,400 uF. All seven
channels are each protected by an advanced Opto-coupled protection circuit.
Heat management is provided by custom-designed heatsinks on each amplifier
module, enabling the amplifier to function at full power without the need
for noisy fans.


Randy,

What is the point of trying to measure the output at this point? It seems to me it would be tough keeping the amp knowing its shortcomings.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#162527 - 04/04/07 11:05 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Wid]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
True Wid, it would just make me feal better. I can then have some factual numbers to back my discusions versus saying, others on my website think something is wrong.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#162528 - 04/04/07 12:18 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Quote:

others on my website think something is wrong




Well there is some news Yeah something is wrong, those amps are not what they are cracked up to be. It seems an ol boy over at AV123 did snip off the resistor you were talking about and the amp is still shutting down.........that sure as heck isn't good.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#162529 - 04/04/07 12:35 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Wid]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Yep, he just disabled his wave form.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#162530 - 04/04/07 01:06 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1127
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Randy, I read through the whole thread and by the time I got to the end, I forgot half of what I read......

So, is or is not the EMO delivering it's claimed output without shutting down? That's the only question that really matters. If it only shuts down once you push past this point, than nothing is wrong. The protection circuit is doing what it's supposed to, and the guys at Emotiva have done their job. If it's not delivering the rated power, then they have more work to do.

If it is delivering the goods, and if you'll be pushing past this point on a regular basis, send it back - you need a bigger amp, man.

It would be nice if Ian or Alan would chime in on how the Sherwood amp performed during their torture tests with the 80's.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#162531 - 04/04/07 02:39 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: real80sman]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
According to them it is, but they are not testing with 80's. I'm now starting to wonder, based on what I'm hearing elsewhere from others.

Based on my findings, I'm only using about 10 watts from 12ft away to achieve 100dB's, the amps are shutting down at 106-7dB's. Now I'm no expert like some of these other guys, but you can't tell me I'm using all 300 watts.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#162532 - 04/04/07 03:15 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
MadScientist Offline
regular

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 8
sirquak why don't you just ask them to send you the AP graphs for the THD and Power output. That will show exactly how much power it is producing. Any company worth its salt uses an AP for its testing so they should have the graphs.

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#162533 - 04/04/07 03:53 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: real80sman]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Quote:


So, is or is not the EMO delivering it's claimed output without shutting down? That's the only question that really matters. If it only shuts down once you push past this point, than nothing is wrong. The protection circuit is doing what it's supposed to, and the guys at Emotiva have done their job. If it's not delivering the rated power, then they have more work to do.





The point in contention is why these amps are shutting down. It does not matter one bit if they are putting out 50 WPC or 700 WPC. They are shutting down.

If they are putting out more power than advertised or what they are rated at, then Emo needs to integrate current limiting circuitry and not rely on over current protection as the current governing device.

Over current protection is a safety feature that should not ever come into play unless there is a short to ground somewhere on the load side, or if the amp is driving a load that it is not rated to drive. However, it is not driving a load it is not rated to drive, and there is no evidence to support a short to ground scenario (this is usually identified with cool lights, flashes and smoke).

Something is most definitely wrong. Specifically; the design.

Think of it this way.

Next time you get into your car, leave it in first gear and then pin the throttle down and see what happens (long straight away lacking of traffic and pedestrians please). Unless it’s an older vehicle with an older drive train that does not have a computer management system, it will reach red line RPM and the engine will not spin any higher or drive the car any faster. IT DOES NOT JUST SHUT DOWN. …….and neither should your amplifier.
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