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#162454 - 03/31/07 08:53 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10360
Randy, that calculator isn't adequate since it doesn't take into account the contribution of room reflections to the total sound level at the listening position. Beyond a certain "critical distance", which may be about 5-6' in typical home listening rooms, the reflected sound is greater in level than the direct sound and remains relatively constant at longer listening distances. As I mentioned before, I made a rough calculation using certain assumptions(of course you may have heard about the physicist who was helping a farmer with a problem, and began "First, assume a spherical cow")and estimated that at peaks you were using about 100-110 watts.
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#162455 - 03/31/07 11:11 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: JohnK]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
So even though I've accounted for this by having all my first reflection points covered (walls/ceiling), and have full corner bass traps, this does not help make it more accurate?
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#162456 - 04/01/07 12:31 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10360
That was one of the "assumptions", i.e. the reverberation time of your room.
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#162457 - 04/01/07 01:05 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Quote:

The question I have is that it appears to be for an 8ohm speaker? So, how do I interpret the results when considering my m80's?




The model is agnostic of speaker impedance. 1W of power into a speaker is 1W of power regardless of its impedance.
Getting back to your question about how much power you were pushing, I'd say you were around 100 to 120W. I'm saying this based on readings I've taken of my environment and I'm factoring in that your room is better treated than mine.

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#162458 - 04/01/07 01:20 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Mojo]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Randy, as Dan has said, you are no where near maxing out your amp, standby for a fix soon, those EMO guys are excellent at what they do, it is a glitch. New modules for us soon..
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#162459 - 04/01/07 10:54 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: KlipschGuy]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
The two modules I received Friday, with the Bias adjusted from Lonnie, are doing the same thing. Now, these were sent out prior to Dan Laufman's statements about looking into this issue. I will contact them on Monday to let them know the replacement amps are doing the same thing.

I wish I could find more people with 4 ohm speakers and the MPS-1, and ear plugs, willing to test my theory. So far the people I've talked to on AV123 and AVSforum all are using 4 ohm speakers.

Based on my own math calculations (A:) and using the above SPL Calculator(B:), here are my guesses:

A: With my SPL meter placed at 1 meter in front of either speaker and the Main Volume knob on the Denon at +3 I'm getting readings of an average of 110dB's on the meter. This is using C-Weighting and "fast" so I can really see the peaks when they happen.

This would be using about 32 watts to achieve 110dB's. During dynamic parts of the music, the needle would "occasionally" jump up to 115-116dB's, but only briefly. I'm thinking this would be using around 128 watts to achieve. So I'm not even close to a steady 300 watts reading..

B) From the 12ft seated position, figuring in 2 speakers, and figuring in 2-4ft from walls, I figure I'm using about 10Watts to achieve the 100dB's average reading. With peaks of around 106dBs, it would be around 45watts.

From 3ft away I would only be using 8 watts to achieve 110dB's and 32 watts to see the higher peeks.

Again, nowhere near the 300 watts it would require to shut this thing down.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#162460 - 04/01/07 11:51 AM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Randy,

I agree with your calculations and the conclusion. Here's another long shot for you to take up with Emotiva.

I understand that they use a modular card cage. So the card cage has connectors that mate with the modules. If these connectors aren't made of the "right" material, their contacts can oxidize over time particularly if they have been sitting on a shelf unmated. So if Emotiva builds the cage and inventories it until need it many months later, the contacts may have oxidized. When they oxidize, their electrical resistance increases. The amplifier's output voltage is proportional to the resistance of the load being driven. If the resistance of the load increases too much, the output voltage can be driven to the supply rails and the amp shuts down. The load that the amp is seing consists of the speaker impedance and the parasitic resistance of the contacts.

The same effect can happen if the connectors are not mating with enough contact force. This is a long shot as every manufacturer should be aware of this kind of an effect but I have seen it happen a few times before with home entertainment and industrial gear.

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#162461 - 04/01/07 12:02 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Mojo]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
My modules all looked pristine when I installed them about a month ago, of course i didn't look Inside the cage. Good thoughts MoJo but I really think its a setting thats gone adrift in production as Dan told me, but who knows? In the meantime I can still play my system friggin LOUD and hard so its not an issue as long as they fix it shortly. If it was not working i would be on the phone for new modules asap.
I have to go to work till late Mon night so hopefully they will have some news by Tues or Wed.

Have a good weekend all,
Chris


Edited by KlipschGuy (04/01/07 12:04 PM)
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#162462 - 04/01/07 12:15 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: Mojo]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
The amps use a photo eye type setup, so they really don't make any contact with the cage other than the AC recepticle to power each amps own power supply. I don't think we are deally with an oxidizing issue. These amps don't sit in inventory very long before they get shipped out.


_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#162463 - 04/01/07 12:38 PM Re: Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help [Re: SirQuack]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Here are some pics om my MPS1 being setup.







_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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