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#163003 - 03/26/07 12:25 PM Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub
yanksjazz Offline
regular

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 9
Hello all, new to the board and a new Axiom owner. I am in my "trial" period and I enjoy the clarity and detail of the M22's; however I am missing that "punch" (midbass?) that my Pinnacle Gold Towers provided. Would I be better served to step up the M60's, or replace my Velodyne 12" sub? The room is 15x20x8 with a couple of large openings....musice is jazz and classic rock...I have a Denon stereo reciver and NAD single CD player...any thoughts?

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#163004 - 03/26/07 12:29 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: yanksjazz]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
Couple of questions:


1. Is your system fully calibrated with your sub with an SPL meter?
2. Is your sub crossed over on your reciever at the correct frequency? (80hz is good for the M22s)
3. Are your M22s set to "small" on your reciever?
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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#163005 - 03/26/07 12:29 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: yanksjazz]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Welcome!

A lot of us use the M60s or M80s without the sub for 2 channel listening and are very happy. If I want the extra extention of the sub, I have that option.

If you are happy with the lower end sounds from your sub then I suggest the 60s.

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#163006 - 03/26/07 12:49 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: Hutzal]
yanksjazz Offline
regular

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 9
Thanks for the feedback. Actually, since my son works part time at Radio Shack it sounds like I should invest in an analog SPL....so no, it is not calibrated. As far as the settings my reciever is stereo only with no settings; I use the preamp out and the sub settings. And boy I have been fiddling with those...from 40hz to 60hz mostly. So I will try the higher crossover. I used to "like" the sound of the sub but it sounds very boomy on some mid-bass now. So I might try a moving it.

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#163007 - 03/26/07 01:04 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: yanksjazz]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8294
Loc: Tacoma
Which Velodyne?

I'd encourage you to fiddle with sub (and speaker) placement some. Could make a big difference.

That being said, you're going to have a hard time finding anyone to discourage you from the Axiom tower speakers.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#163008 - 03/26/07 02:05 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: yanksjazz]
ravi_singh Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1351
Loc: Montreal
If your sub is too boomy, try lowering the volume, or placing it away from a corner. Corner placement can amplify certain frequencies and give that "boomy" sound.

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#163009 - 03/26/07 02:38 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: tomtuttle]
yanksjazz Offline
regular

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 9
I have the VRP-1200 Velodyne...yes I agree the consensus may be to go to the towers! But I must pass that through the CFO..she is tough...I do look forward to moving the sub mid-wall and using a meter. Any suggestions on a test CD or DVD? I mostly listen to music but occasionally movies...

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#163010 - 03/26/07 07:57 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: yanksjazz]
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
I actually beg to differ. I enjoy my M60s with a sub (see my sig). I initially had M60 alone in a two channel Rotel separates system without a sub, and purchasing my REL sub improved the sound quite a bit, after tweaking it for a few days. In addition, adding a sub is a wise move even for a 2 channel system, in terms of an upgrade path for a future HT system, as it in fact happened to me.
_________________________
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#163011 - 03/26/07 08:13 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: thyname]
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
I'm in the minority here I think, but I've compared the M22 and M60 and didn't think the M60 was enough better to justify the cost, so I'd say M22 with a better sub.

My biggest reason to upgrade from the M22 someday will likely be to get rid of the speaker stands and have towers instead. They'll be harder for toddlers to tip over someday.

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#163012 - 03/28/07 08:14 AM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: thyname]
KC23 Offline
local

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 212
Loc: Southern California
I also beg to differ. I would double check your present sub's placement and calibration as suggested, but if it were me I'd get a better sub woofer without question.

I have M60s, but IMHO they really didn't come into their own until I got a good subwoofer (admittedly I enjoy heavy bass).

I feel strongly about it too. Go for the better sub woofer.

(unless you are trying to fill a room too big for your M22s)


Edited by KC23 (03/28/07 08:20 AM)

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#163013 - 03/28/07 10:03 AM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: KC23]
yanksjazz Offline
regular

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 9
Thnak you all for your comments...I am starting my tweaks by moving the sub tonight..from near corner to mid-wall and note the change. I am not sure if the M22's are too small...but I do notice a thinness to the sound my old speakers filled in...any thoughts if the M50's would help? With the Axiom stands that I purchased the price difference is under 100 bucks....

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#163014 - 03/28/07 11:05 AM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: yanksjazz]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
Quote:

Thnak you all for your comments...I am starting my tweaks by moving the sub tonight..from near corner to mid-wall and note the change. I am not sure if the M22's are too small...but I do notice a thinness to the sound my old speakers filled in...any thoughts if the M50's would help? With the Axiom stands that I purchased the price difference is under 100 bucks....




Sounds like you would be happier with some 6.5" woofers in your mains. I would skip the M50s and head straight to the M60s, they will sound similar to your M22s but with more lower end warmth. The M50s will not have the high/mid clarity that your M22s have, and you may find yourself prefering your M22s now that you have been listening to them.
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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#163015 - 03/28/07 12:44 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: Hutzal]
yanksjazz Offline
regular

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 9
The mid/high clarity is the charecteristic that I love so far...I would not want to lose that. I am considering a 10" HSU sub (30 day trial!) before I consider an Axiom swap...but first a move of the Velodyne (I think its future lies with my HT in another room!)

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#163016 - 03/29/07 02:24 AM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: yanksjazz]
KC23 Offline
local

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 212
Loc: Southern California
How big a room to you have? I recently got an HSU sub VTR 2.3 and I'm very happy with it. They are a bit bigger physically than a lot of subs, but the value is excellent.

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#163017 - 04/01/07 12:39 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: yanksjazz]
PDXGuy Offline
buff

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 45
Loc: Portland, Oregon
After two days of listening to my M60s I realized I needed a sub. Your room dimensions are similar to mine. I spent an entire weekend locating the sub in various locations and found that up front next to a main was the best home for it. A corner location was too boomy at times. I considered the M22s but worried about them being too small, and the fact that I like my music loud. 75% of my listening is 2.1 channel stereo (with the sub). I'm really happy I chose the M60s. Because I was tight on space, I chose a small-form sub solution from a different company, the SB12-Plus from SVS. It's proven to be an excellent match for the M60s. If you have an open adjoining room, keep the sub three or four feet away from the corner where the two rooms adjoin.

As was mentioned here, calibration is critical, and be certain to set your mains to small.
_________________________
Steve Axiom M60v2, VP100v2, SVS SB12-Plus Yamaha HTR-5990, Oppo DV-981HD Samsung LN-S4692D

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#163018 - 04/05/07 12:40 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: PDXGuy]
yanksjazz Offline
regular

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 9
Well, I have ordered the M60's (shipped yesterday)so the decision is made. I will be moving my sub out of the corner to mid-wall and then calibrating it...this should help the "boominess" until an upgrade....my room is mid sized with 2 large openings to other rooms...the sound of the M22's are excellent but I believe the M60's will give that "extra" in upper-mid range I currently have with my Pinnacle floorstanders. I listen mostly to music and the setup is stereo only........

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#163019 - 04/10/07 02:35 AM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: yanksjazz]
PaulM Offline
local

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 278
Loc: St. Albert, Alberta
Let us know what you think of the change in sound from the m22's to the m60's.

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#163020 - 04/17/07 01:04 PM Re: Return m22's for m60's, or replace my sub [Re: PaulM]
yanksjazz Offline
regular

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 9
I am very happy with the M60's...definitley the right choice for me. Many of the comments on these boards about the charecteristics of each speaker were spot on...the M22's are slightly more detailed, and more "transparent" than the M60's..but for my music choices and room I believe the "larger" sound of the M60's are more appropriate. Listened to John Faddis "Tarango" over the weekend and could not believe the presence of his horn! Moved my sub-woofer away from corner and adjusted the crossover so it has improved...but my next upgrade will most likely be an HSU.

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