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#172121 - 08/03/07 08:50 AM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: RickSean]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10681
Loc: Central NH
No on here has EVER claimed that speakers don't have distinct tonal qualities.

As to the rest of your post, well, it's just pretty snotty in tone, isn't it?
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#172122 - 08/03/07 09:01 AM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: RickSean]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Quote:

If you want measurements for my modified HK 3480, they are on that review...




Hi Sean and Rick,

Links to the review were posted by the person who originated this post but they are "broken". I'd appreciate if you can post the review so that I can read it.

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#172123 - 08/03/07 10:30 AM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Sean and Rick,

I am curious to hear your thoughts on this:

Re: AVR What to buy, need help??? [Re: Mojo]
#169929 - 05/18/07 05:41 PM


Some of you will like me for this and others will hate me but in the interest of advancing knowledge on this subject I have decided to post this.

I decided to blind test my wife's plastic, dinky Sony boombox with my Denon. Here are the specs:

Sony CFD-Z130: 2.3W + 2.3W into 3.2 Ohms at 10% harmonic distortion.

Denon AVR-2105: 90W + 90W into 8 Ohms at 0.08% THD from 20 Hz to 20 Khz; 125W + 125W into 4 Ohms at 0.7% THD at 1 KHz; dynamic power of 170W/channel into 4 Ohms.

For the Denon, I used my Sony with optical out as the CD source. The boombox has its own CD player.

I put on some Poncho Sanchez and adjusted the gains for 75 dB SPL. By the way, 75 dB in my room requires less than a watt per side. After I had everything adjusted I called in my wife, son and daughter and let them listen to the Denon for 2 minutes and the Sony for two minutes. Then I sent them back out and covered everything up. To make a long story short, we tested 12 times for a minute each time and I had them write down their answers each time. The test was painful as I had to keep changing the leads. Here is the raw data. The first field indicates the amp under test and the last three fields the selections they made:

1. S, D, D, S
2. S, S, D, S
3. S, D, S, S
4. D, D, D, S
5. D, D, S, D
6. D, D, D, S
7. D, S, S, S
8. S, S, S, D
9. S, S, S, S
10. S, D, S, S
11. D, S, D, D
12. D, S, S, D

Out of 36 possible trials, 21 turned up the correct response. That's not much different than guessing heads or tails.

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#172124 - 08/03/07 12:11 PM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: Mojo]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
Good lord. What speakers were you using for that? Also, I don't think that 2/3 is very equivalent to 50%.
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I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#172125 - 08/03/07 12:52 PM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: Ken.C]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4733
Loc: western canada
Quote:

Good lord. What speakers were you using for that? Also, I don't think that 2/3 is very equivalent to 50%.




Actually from a statistical perspective, the simplest conclusion is that there is no significant difference.
I would consider accepting a correct result 9 out of 10 times, a confidence level of 90%, which is less than that typically used in most science (alpha of 0.05 or 95% confidence limits). A value 2/3 correct falls well within the average of a normal distribution that could be expected from random guessing.

Anyone who has not done a controlled blind test does not have a clue how hard it really is. Those who never want to destroy their fragile egos by finding out how meaningless their "high end, overpriced electronics" are, have to resort to arguments of faith that can never be proved by their very cyclical nature.
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"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#172126 - 08/03/07 01:53 PM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: chesseroo]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
I was using the M80s.

My conclusion was that my family could not tell the difference between the Denon and the Sony.

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#172127 - 08/03/07 02:25 PM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: Mojo]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
You hooked up M80s to a boombox and you couldn't hear the difference?!
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#172128 - 08/03/07 02:42 PM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: Ken.C]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
I never participated in the test.

But I don't know why you find that so surprising. I was putting in less than a quarter watt into each M80. This was well within the Sony's spec.

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#172129 - 08/03/07 02:48 PM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: Mojo]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
How loud was it? I would expect 10% THD to be very audible.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#172130 - 08/03/07 03:10 PM Re: hk 3480 modification: science or wishful heari [Re: Ken.C]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
75dBC, slow-weighted with noise from a test CD. Remember that the 10% THD for the Sony is at maximum power. I have no idea what the THD is for the SPL that I calibrated.

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