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#174521 - 08/14/07 10:01 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: cgolf]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Quote:

What I care about is that hearing a difference for whatever reason convinced me to do what I've been wanting to do for a long time-get some better equipment-separates to be exact!! And I'm quite happy and content with this change until I do my next upgrade on acoustics or whatever it might be. That's all that matters anyway, isn't it???




I'm really happy for you. But that's not all that matters to me as an engineer. I'm trying, really hard, to understand why/how some people hear differences amongst various receivers and amps. I believe the differences are related to different volume levels. If you operate two amps of radically different designs and price ranges well within their spec and at the same output power level, I don't believe you will be able to tell the difference between the two.

So perhaps you were operating your old equipment to the point where it was distorting or you are operating your new equipment at a higher power level than the old equipment and enjoying it more.

Please don't let this post spoil your new-found listening experience. Like I said, I am simply trying to understand.

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#174522 - 08/14/07 10:05 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: cgolf]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
You say you hear a difference then it is so, who in the heck can say it isn't. They are not in the room with you. They do not use your ears to hear with. Don't let the measurement geeks get to you, it's been this way since I've been here and I suspect it will always be.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#174523 - 08/14/07 10:08 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: Mojo]
cgolf Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 340
Loc: Cypress, Texas
Oh, nothing said here will ruin my listening experience, not to worry. I don't have a technical answer and I understand what you're asking or seeking. What I do know is that with both units set at 75db with an SPL meter (Yammi & Emotiva) there is a difference, maybe not in volume, but in the other aspects of SQ. I would much rather listen to the Emotive gear than the Yamaha.

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#174524 - 08/14/07 10:09 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: cgolf]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Quote:

Only change was going from a Yamaha 657 to Emotiva LMC / LPA combo.




There's certainly nothing wrong with that Yammy but I am sure if you are trying to get 90W out of it with the M80s, it may be badly distorting. On the other hand, the LPA should have no problem with 90W since it's rated 225W (clean) into 4 Ohms. Do you think that this may be the difference that you are hearing?

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#174525 - 08/14/07 10:12 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: Wid]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
That's them 'know-it-all's' Rick, you've seen 'em before.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

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#174526 - 08/14/07 10:13 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: cgolf]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Quote:

What I do know is that with both units set at 75db with an SPL meter (Yammi & Emotiva) there is a difference, maybe not in volume, but in the other aspects of SQ.




That's very interesting and I have no doubt that you hear a difference. Can you please tell me how big the room is (cubic feet) and how far away from the M80s you took the measurement? That will give me a good idea of how much power you are drawing from the equipment. Thanks.

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#174527 - 08/14/07 10:14 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: Mojo]
cgolf Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 340
Loc: Cypress, Texas
I'm sure that is exactly what is happening which goes back to my original issue of getting better equipment so I can have better sound. "Better" is a nebulous word and needs definition but to keep it simple the SQ is much stronger at the same levels.

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#174528 - 08/14/07 10:18 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: Mojo]
cgolf Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 340
Loc: Cypress, Texas
I have 60s and a 150 in the front and QS8s for surrounds with a SVS PB12 sub. Small room-1200 cu. ft. that opens into a breakfast area and kitchen so there is no back wall.
We are sitting 14' back. I set my mains at 14' and center at 14.5'

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#174529 - 08/14/07 10:40 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: cgolf]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Ok. So I am assuming that you had only the 60s on when you read 75dB. So according to my very rough calculations, you are putting in less than a watt into each 60. If you had all your speakers going, you had far less than a watt going into each speaker. Now granted, you may have cancellations due to your room geometry and maybe it's not a watt, maybe it's two or three. But I doubt it because I used the anechoic sensitivity for the M60s (89 dB rather than the in-room sensitivity of 93dB).

So the power level certainly doesn't begin to explain why you are hearing a difference. We are again no further ahead on this puzzle .

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#174530 - 08/14/07 11:02 PM Re: Speakers and Equipment-both make a difference [Re: cgolf]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13336
Loc: Iowa
Charles, Rick and Rick, I'm with you on this one, and jumped on the seperates bandwagon back in January. I've been around music most of my life, play many instruments, sing very well (my dad was better he will tell ya), and can honestly say that my Odyssey mono's make my 80's come to life compared to when I was just using the Denon. You can throw all the engineering and math you want at this, but if your happy and your ears tell the difference, as do mine, then that is all that matters. Sit back and enjoy.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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