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#179838 - 10/20/07 05:02 PM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: Wid]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17697
Loc: NoVA
I use 16 gauge lamp cord on my M50s. I use big honking Canare Quad Star on my M80s. Why? 'Cause I wanted to. The VP100 is connected by Rat Shack 16 gauge, the QS4s by somebody-or-other 16 gauge flat.
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#179840 - 10/20/07 05:28 PM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: Ken.C]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Do they ever mention who those competitor cables are and more importantly gauge size?

Should you not be able to read Voltage on wires at the lower end right to zero hz, no matter what the frequency? Voltage is voltage whether it is trying to move 1hz or 21000khz. All you electrical engineers educate me.
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#179852 - 10/20/07 06:57 PM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: Ken.C]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4733
Loc: western canada
 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
I use 16 gauge lamp cord on my M50s. I use big honking Canare Quad Star on my M80s. Why? 'Cause I wanted to.

I have to agree with Amie. I spent a bit more for cables because they are audio jewelry. If i have to look at them, they may as well be pretty, albeit reasonably priced at least.
I went less expensive with the speaker wire but got some lovely quality stuff for about 50 cents a foot. I would say 50 cents Cdn, but since that equates to more $ for the Americans now...it only sounds more expensive. ;\)
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#179868 - 10/20/07 09:03 PM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: chesseroo]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
They don't mention who the competitor is. But I've asked them and if I ever get a response, I'll let you know.

They seem to indicate that the graph is suspect below 150Hz due to so-called anomalies. No speaker cable that is sized properly would perform in that drastic way.

But to answer your question, the voltage that appears at the speaker terminals does indeed depend on frequency. Cables are characterized by resistance, capacitance and inductance. Resistance attenuates signals by the same amount regardless of frequency. But the resistance (called reactance) developed as a result of the capacitance and inductance varies with frequency.

At higher frequencies, the voltage at the speaker terminals does indeed drop by as much as a dB for "normal" wire runs due to the combined effects of resistance and reactance. But at above 15KHz, the minimum detectable change for humans with good hearing is somewhere around a couple of dB. So I don't believe anyone can hear the difference with "normal" wire runs.

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#179895 - 10/21/07 12:38 AM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: Mojo]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4733
Loc: western canada
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#179934 - 10/21/07 03:44 PM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: Mojo]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: Mojo

They seem to indicate that the graph is suspect below 150Hz due to so-called anomalies. No speaker cable that is sized properly would perform in that drastic way.



It's the lower spectrum I was actually interested in more. As I couldn't believe a wire should drop off like that at the lower end, this would lead me to believe they devoloped a specific test that shows there product is better than the other brand.
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#179937 - 10/21/07 05:04 PM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: chesseroo]
AdamP88 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 639
Loc: Omaha, NE
Surprise, surprise.

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#179941 - 10/21/07 05:42 PM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: Mojo]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: Mojo
.

At higher frequencies, the voltage at the speaker terminals does indeed drop by as much as a dB for "normal" wire runs due to the combined effects of resistance and reactance. But at above 15KHz, the minimum detectable change for humans with good hearing is somewhere around a couple of dB. So I don't believe anyone can hear the difference with "normal" wire runs.


I guess another question is just how long is that cable they are testing?

So they could concievably get that graph if the wire is long enough, most likely well betond anything someone would use in a house.
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#179944 - 10/21/07 06:28 PM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: jakewash]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
If the cable was very long, it would also have a depressed response at mid-frequencies.

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#179947 - 10/21/07 06:32 PM Re: You know that $1 millon speaker wire challenge [Re: Mojo]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I also noticed that in Pears retraction statement " as well as our doubts about the legitimacy of your misleading challenge (including the fact that you now personally claim that almost anyone can tell the difference between Monster cables and zip-cord)"

Anyone know if the JREF or James Randi himself, makes that claim.
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Jason
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