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#199979 - 03/11/08 08:09 PM m3ti's for surround backs?
PaulHa Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Florida
I recently moved and the stereo area is considerably larger as the living/dining is one room. I was previously running a 5.1 with M60's, VP150, QS8's and SVS PB1-ISD sub. The new residence's room is 29'long, 21' wide and 12' ceilings. The listening position is 12' from the mains, leaving 15' to the rear. My reciver is a Denon 3805 which has 7.1. I had a pair of M3ti's in the bedroom, and was wondering would they make good rear surround sound? Also, what would be the best way to mount them in a corner (the two rear corners of the room)?

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#199985 - 03/11/08 08:46 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: PaulHa]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
I presume you plan on using the QS8s as sides. The M3s should then be mounted on the back wall and not in the corners.

-------M3----------M3-------- rear wall

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#199988 - 03/11/08 08:53 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: Mojo]
PaulHa Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Florida
Yes, the QS8s are mounted on the side, about 3 feet behind the listening area. How close to the corner can I go (wife factor)?

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#200002 - 03/11/08 09:30 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: PaulHa]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
The wider you go, I'm guessing the harder it will be to notice seperation from the side surrounds.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#200004 - 03/11/08 09:34 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: SirQuack]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Look at my diagram above. Go that wide \:\) .

To clarify that is the rear wall because if you stand at the M3s and look forward, your rear is facing the wall and hence it is the rear wall. Right Randy \:D .

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#200008 - 03/11/08 09:39 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: Mojo]
PaulHa Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Florida
So you are saying a third of the way in from the sides?

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#200009 - 03/11/08 09:40 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: PaulHa]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Yes sir.

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#200012 - 03/11/08 09:46 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: Mojo]
PaulHa Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Florida
OK, thanks.
The QS8s came with brackets, etc. for wall mounting. Are there brackets for the M3? I should say is there a mounting mechinism that would allow the M3's to be pointed at the listening spot?


Edited by PaulHa (03/11/08 09:48 PM)

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#200013 - 03/11/08 09:51 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: Mojo]
HAY Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 720
Loc: Burlington, Ontario
Like this Mojo?

I have since changed the M3's to another set of QS8's. I did this as the sound characteristics of the M3's was rather different than the other speakers. I loved the M3's but found them much more laid back the M60's. Having the M3's in a 2 channel stereo set up is awesome.
_________________________
High Gloss Cherry
M60 VP150 QS8
Open for Auditions but please don't drool on the High Gloss

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#200020 - 03/11/08 10:00 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: HAY]
PaulHa Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Florida
Hay, are you saying the M3's are not a good match for rear surrounds with the M60's and QS8's? Does it matter that they would be 15 feet behind the listening area?

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#200022 - 03/11/08 10:04 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: PaulHa]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
Direct radiating speakers (bookshelfs) don't envelope/surround you in the experience like a true surround speaker. You have to be in more of the sweet spot. Now, being that far back it might work out fine. Some who listen to 7.1 music find it nice to have bookshelfs in the back. I think the Q's do a great job for HT and music.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#200024 - 03/11/08 10:10 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: HAY]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
That's not quite thirds but close enough \:\) .

I placed QS8s 13 feet behind me and I regret it. I should have put M3s or M22s back there. One day, I'll have to take care of that.

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#200026 - 03/11/08 10:22 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: Mojo]
PaulHa Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Florida
Would it be true that the QS8's would be better for HT as surround backs and the M3's better for music? Not that I could convince the better half to put four speakers on the back wall, but the Denon 3805 actully allows two different sets as the surround backs. It lets you choose one or the other.


Edited by PaulHa (03/11/08 10:23 PM)

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#200030 - 03/11/08 10:31 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: PaulHa]
PaulHa Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Florida
So I am wondering if the distance behind the listening area matters. Hay switched to QS8's from M3's and his back distance look fairly close. Mojo distance is more at 13 ft. and will evenly swith from the QS8's to the M3's or M22. That was some of my resoning for the M3's originally as the distance to the back wall from my listening area is 15 ft.

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#200031 - 03/11/08 10:47 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: PaulHa]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
I am sure both distance and room geometry play a factor but distance more so. They are so far way from me that I only get reflected sound and by the time that reaches me, it is greatly attenuated. I've tried turning them up but then it sounds too "smeared".

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#200050 - 03/12/08 01:53 AM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: Mojo]
doormat Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 395
Loc: Cold Lake, AB
You know, Mojo, if you like I'd be willing to trade my M3s for your QS8s.

Yes, I really am that considerate.
_________________________
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.

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#200051 - 03/12/08 01:56 AM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: doormat]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Something told me to get out of bed and check the boards.

Are they black? Mine are black as you may remember.

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#200052 - 03/12/08 02:03 AM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: Mojo]
doormat Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 395
Loc: Cold Lake, AB
They sure are!
_________________________
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.

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#200066 - 03/12/08 11:01 AM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: doormat]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Then you know what to bring with you next time you're through here \:\) . The QSs come with wall-mount brackets. How do you have the M3s mounted?

Oh no! Randy's gonna hunt us down for having this discussion.


Edited by Mojo (03/12/08 11:02 AM)

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#200071 - 03/12/08 12:02 PM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: Mojo]
doormat Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 395
Loc: Cold Lake, AB
They're on some MDF stands.

Randy doesn't scare me! I doubt very much that he could find my fictitious town on a map!
_________________________
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.

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#200444 - 03/15/08 03:00 AM Re: m3ti's for surround backs? [Re: PaulHa]
HAY Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 720
Loc: Burlington, Ontario
 Originally Posted By: PaulHa
Hay, are you saying the M3's are not a good match for rear surrounds with the M60's and QS8's? Does it matter that they would be 15 feet behind the listening area?


For H/T they were fine, mine were about 4 feet behind me. If there was a pan around the room, the sound signature was noticeably different.

For multi channel music I didn't care for it, so I changed the wiring so the M3's were my Speaker B and I spent a lot of time sitting in the middle of the room going back and forth between them and my M60's. I listened with the M60's up front, then turned around and switched to the M3 in back. Once I realized I wasn't 100% happy with the 4 surrounds, plus the M3's were large, I took the M3's down. Once they were down, I played with using them up front as Presence surround speakers. This was neat but meant I could not run 4 rears and I would have preferred smaller M2's for the presence speakers.

Finally, I put the M3's on top of the M60's and switched back and forth A/B in 2 channel listening to a range of music. To me the 2 sounded very different but both excellent. Each one had their own pros and cons and I loved them both. I had a couple people over one day and turned on the system (2 channel music) with them not knowing which speakers were playing. I put on a few different tracks and they mentioned that my towers were killer. I let them know that they weren't on, it was the M3 bookshelves on top.

To me the M3's are just a little more laid back than the M60's. The detail is still there for the highs with the M3's but they just seem silky smooth. Switching quickly from M60 to M3 I prefer the M60. But, if I leave the M3 on for more than a couple seconds I find myself sitting there listening to a few songs.

For your application with the M3's being much further back your findings will most likely be different. I would possibly look at the M2's as an alternative, that or more QS8's as I find them great with music as well. My room really doesn't warrant a 7.1 system, but when I was having it built I knew it was the coming standard. Better to run wires when planning and when I sell the house I'm sure the next person will be glad that I did as well.

Good luck and half the fun is going through the set up and tests to find what you like best.
_________________________
High Gloss Cherry
M60 VP150 QS8
Open for Auditions but please don't drool on the High Gloss

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