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#202558 - 03/30/08 01:57 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: CV]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7405
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
 Originally Posted By: CV
Who's the toilet paper?


I think that's us.



I've gotta go take another shower. . .
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#202559 - 03/30/08 01:58 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: St_PatGuy]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I'm thinking maybe we should start buying into audio voodoo. Fake poop is so much easier to wash off.

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#202560 - 03/30/08 02:00 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: CV]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7405
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Fake poop can fit in your pocket, too. . .


Never know when it might come in handy.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#202561 - 03/30/08 02:10 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: St_PatGuy]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Oh, man, if only I'd had some for Regina to sign.

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#202562 - 03/30/08 02:56 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: Spoiler]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Joe, you're of course correct: overenthusiastic reports by users of audio equipment shouldn't be taken seriously, especially when they fly in the face of well-established principles of audio technology. The story is still the same: flat frequency response along with inaudibly low noise and distortion equal audibly transparent amplification, and this is true regardless of whether the amplifier is in a $300 receiver or is a $30,000 separate unit. Again, The Audio Critic puts it well in "Electronic Signal Paths Do Not Have a Personality" . Claims to the contrary have failed when put to the(properly controlled blind listening)test and manufacturers don't want to be made to look silly by claiming mysterious qualities that no amplifier can have.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#202565 - 03/30/08 09:12 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: jakeman]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
That's funny. Well they are both right, aren't they

Yep and Yep, though you have to think a little to realize they are both right. I think that 100w is right on the hairy edge for minimum power. I understand why Denon and the likes are so popular here.

If you are in a bigger an like to listen to classical loud I can see the attraction of an amp like the A1400.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#202568 - 03/30/08 09:42 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: fredk]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Yes for any kind of well recorded classical or jazz at moderate volumes in anything but a small room a 100w receiver amp would guarantee you clipping at peaks and transients. Many people often mistake the sound of clipping distortion with "loudness" and rush to turn down their gear. Without clipping distortion higher SPLs don't sound so loud. That's often the first thing people notice when getting a more powerful separate amp. Other nuances like greater bass control or more textured sound usually follow. Doing a side by side comparison with different recordings and at varying volumes can be very revealing.

Denon makes a good product and it's true that the tradeoffs inherent in an integrated box are getting better but the quest for less compromised sound quality usually leads people to separates. Once someone goes that route they hardly ever buy receivers again. Over a longer time period, I've always believed its better value to go with an amp and upgrade the processor occasionally.
_________________________
John

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#202571 - 03/30/08 09:52 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: JohnK]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Joe, you're of course correct: overenthusiastic reports by users of audio equipment shouldn't be taken seriously, especially when they fly in the face of well-established principles of audio technology. The story is still the same: flat frequency response along with inaudibly low noise and distortion equal audibly transparent amplification, and this is true regardless of whether the amplifier is in a $300 receiver or is a $30,000 separate unit. Again, The Audio Critic puts it well in "Electronic Signal Paths Do Not Have a Personality" . Claims to the contrary have failed when put to the(properly controlled blind listening)test and manufacturers don't want to be made to look silly by claiming mysterious qualities that no amplifier can have.


I guess its safe to say you won't be debating the merits of Class A and D amps with us anytime soon.
_________________________
John

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#202573 - 03/30/08 10:08 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: Mojo]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10899
Loc: Central NH
 Originally Posted By: Mojo
So he must really be laughing at my half watt \:\) .


We ALL are, Mojo...we ALL are.....
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#202576 - 03/30/08 10:57 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Just to add add to the conversation above, I find that I cannot listen to well-recorded classical pieces on my system due to my meager 90W/channel. I find I have to turn my Denon's gain knob to -3 (in order to properly hear the piccolos, oboes and the like) when I normally listen to -20 or -25 for rock, blues, jazz, etc. Then of course when there's a loud passage like brass and drums, it sounds terrible. My wife keeps saying that that's what the woodwinds should sound like and I shouldn't be turning it up to hear them "better".

I also find that out of the dozens and dozens of classical CDs that I've listened to as a result of recommendations from Johnk and others on this site, almost all have sounded flat and lifeless.

I'm not convinced that my second problem is amp-related because I have two in particular that sound absolutely fantastic. So I'm blaming the sound engineering for all others. As for my first problem, it's definitely the amp. When I crank it up that much, I run out of headroom.

And you may laugh at my half watt, but I boast a whopping 22.6dB of headroom \:\) .

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