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#200049 - 03/12/08 01:39 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: Kpt_Krunch]
rmk1 Offline
buff

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Northern Calif
 Originally Posted By: Kpt_Krunch
Hey RMK - thanks for posting here. I really like the fact you had problems with the first two. Don't get me wrong, I'd hope you and everyone else would have zero problems, but you don't know how a company will stand behind a product until problems arise. Though the internet is a very very small place, and if a company didn't stand behind their products, they wouldn't be around long.

Hopefully this amp will last you. One nice thing I've found about electronics, especially amps - if they're good out of the box, they should be good for years to come.

The Audessy thing doesn't sit right with me though. Did the good folks over at Axiom indicate they'd get back to you with why (if) Audessy affects their amps. I assume Audessy (never had a processor that used it) put out a certain type of testtone not liked by the amp, or else what else does it do?

Also, and forgive my ignorance here, but why would you have to re-calibrate your system? I thought the amp would just supply the power required by the speakers based on the volume level set by the processor. I could see if you got a different processor, but why do it for a different amp? I put a 100 w/channel HK PA2000 (bridged) to my mains. When I eq'd it afterwords (with an RS analog meter) there were no adjustments required, sounded the same. However, at louder volumes there's no breakup in the sound (where I feel the difference comes in).

So if you (or anyone else here) cam enlighten me as to why you'd eq your whole system with an amp change, I'm all ears.... so to speak \:\)

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts RMK .... this amp could very well find a home in my h/t once I'm ready to buy!


You're welcome \:\) , I have run Audyssey many times (cause I can ;\) ) with slightly different results each time. Adding a more powerful amp and two new surround speakers (5.1 to 7.1) made running Audyssey again necessary as I wanted to use the EQ feature of my Integra 9.8to set the levels and distance of the new speakers. Honestly, I don't miss the Audyssey EQ but would like an explanation.


Edited by rmk1 (03/12/08 01:44 AM)

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#200067 - 03/12/08 11:25 AM Re: A1400-8 [Re: Kpt_Krunch]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Hi Kpt. You turn up in the strangest places. ;\)
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#200075 - 03/12/08 12:53 PM Re: A1400-8 [Re: rmk1]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto


Rob, I'm glad to see you toughed it out and let Axiom's excellent service deal with the problems you were having. \:\) It really is a phenomenal amp and IMO has set a new benchmark performance for Class D amps. I've had a couple of chats with Tom about the Audessey problem. Making a long discussion short it has to do with how the new program in the Integra 9.8 flucuates higher amounts of voltage which prompts a safety shutdown. Its hard to say whether its the fault of the Audessey or Axiom's safety precautions. Other folks like ihifi (John) have use the Audessey in the Onkyo 905 without problem.

In any event I've always felt the Audessey programs were not very good and very overhyped so I never use them.
_________________________
John

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#200078 - 03/12/08 01:11 PM Re: A1400-8 [Re: jakeman]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Next time you talk with Tom, it may not be a bad idea to mention that input specifications for the amp may make it easier for the consumer to avoid incompatibilities.

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#200081 - 03/12/08 01:34 PM Re: A1400-8 [Re: Mojo]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
A1400-8 specs says 1.5VRMS for input.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#200087 - 03/12/08 01:54 PM Re: A1400-8 [Re: EFalardeau]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Then if the Integra is outputting more than 1.5VRMS for Audyssey purposes, there's likely an incompatibility.

Did you find that spec in the manual?

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#200090 - 03/12/08 02:38 PM Re: A1400-8 [Re: rmk1]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
 Originally Posted By: rmk1
Adding a more powerful amp and two new surround speakers (5.1 to 7.1) made running Audyssey again necessary as I wanted to use the EQ feature of my Integra 9.8to set the levels and distance of the new speakers. Honestly, I don't miss the Audyssey EQ but would like an explanation.


Hello all,

I just chatted with Tom Cumberland at Axiom about the issues with running Audyssey and the A1400-8, and here, slightly modified, is his explanation of what is happening, which confirms my own gut suspicions about what is occurring:

"The way Audyssey sets up the system is to increase the volume level to the amp until it ‘hears’ something. With an amp as powerful as the A-1400, this is a very dangerous approach. If the amp ‘sees’ more than 2.0 VRMS on the input (1.5VRMS is the standard for full power output of the A1400-8), it will more than likely do some damage somewhere. We believe that if the customer uses the manual setup to adjust the levels, he is unlikely to do any damage to either his speakers or the amplifier. The A-1400 is designed to follow the standard with a 1.5VRMS input producing full power output, and 1.7VRMS input as the clipping point. As you can see by the numbers, a little bit more input to the A1400 translates to a really big change in the amplifier's output. This is true for all very high powered amplifiers, ours included."

Regards,

Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#200091 - 03/12/08 02:38 PM Re: A1400-8 [Re: Mojo]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Yes, it is in the manual.
The trouble is to find the specs of pre-out on receivers and preamps.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#200092 - 03/12/08 02:41 PM Re: A1400-8 [Re: EFalardeau]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
My Denon has a "rated" output of 1.2V. By rated, I assume Denon means maximum. And I assume that's RMS.

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#200093 - 03/12/08 02:54 PM Re: A1400-8 [Re: Mojo]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
 Originally Posted By: Mojo
My Denon has a "rated" output of 1.2V. By rated, I assume Denon means maximum. And I assume that's RMS.


Hi Mojo,

In a perfect world, all manufacturers would adhere to the standard line-level preamp and AV preamp output levels in order to ensure compatibility between different components. However, I can tell you from my days bench-testing gear for a Canadian AV magazine, that so-called "standard" output levels varied all over the place. I sometimes measured preamp outputs as high as 7 or 8 volts, which would overload the input section of any amplifier.

It would be interesting to actually measure a Denon or Integra's preamp output levels when Audyssey is operating. . .

Regards,

Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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