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#212414 - 06/20/08 05:54 PM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: michael_d]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
I continue to see folks bashing Audessey here and elsewhere. To each their own I reckon, but I sure like what it does in my room with my set up. So ya, I agree with Michael, give it a whirl first before you get on the Audessey basher bus. Just make sure you take your time with mic positioning and make sure that you do not have any background noise when doing the set up. After you run it, verify distances and SPL levels. You might also want to change speaker sizes and X-over settings to your liking.

I was running my M80’s with the 3808 and it did just fine. I added a 200X5 amp and didn’t notice a dramatic difference. A wee bit more headroom and slightly improved dynamic range, but it definitely wasn’t a night and day difference.


Thanks for the input guys. The posts I saw where they said to turn it off and do everything manually may be people that have been doing it for years and are used to doing it manually or really know what they are doing.

I used Audyssey on my current setup and it seemed like the volume levels were very low after it did it's calculations but that was right out of the box and I probably didn't do it the correct way, because like most guys, I don't really like to read no stinkin' instructions. I'll give it a shot when my Axioms show up.

Do I understand correctly that the 3808 has an internal 7 or 9 band equalizer and Audyssey sets all those freq. levels? If so how do you reset them all to default and can you access the equalizer manually? I remember having equalizers in the "old days" and thought playing with all those sliders was pretty cool. You could definately fine tune your audio \:\)
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"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

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#212425 - 06/20/08 07:33 PM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: edmondwolfman]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3875
Loc: Up yonder
You run auto set up first and make changes later. When you run the auto set up, it is VERY important to take your time. You need to make sure that the mic is at ear level as you sit in the seating and it is pointed straight up (preferably on a tripod). After you get it set in the first position, get comfortable somewhere that your body will not serve as some sort of bass trap or reflective object (no kidding). I grab my RF remote and back myself into the EQ area when I do this. You may be able to crouch behind a couch or something. When you are ready, also make sure that the kids aren’t running around with waffle bats or your neighbor isn’t running the lawnmower. It everything is cool, hit the go button on the remote and let the AVR do its thing. Repeat this in four or five more seating locations. Then you let the AVR calculate and then save those settings.

Step 2-
Verify speaker distances. You will notice that the sub is wacky. Don’t worry too much as it should show further away than what it actually is. Some folks have their own rules of thumb for this, and mine is + 8 feet. Make sure all the other speakers are pretty close to actual distances.

Step 3-
Set up your handy dandy RS meter on the tripod you had the mic on. Put it in the main position, which should have been position one when running the auto set up. Go into manual speaker set up and run through the channel levels manually. Dial all the speakers in to how you prefer them. You may not have to touch anything. I prefer the center channel to be 2 DB higher than the mains, the sub to be 5 DB higher than the mains and all others matched to the mains.

Step 4-
Check your X-over settings. Play with these some. I like to set my mains to Large and all others to small. I set LFE to Mains + LFE. Again, play with these a bit to see where you prefer it.

Step 5-
Copy the EQ curve. This does as you mention, sorta. It copies a few bands where Audessey set them. You can then go to each of the bands and tweak as you wish. This will most likely drive you nuts because you’ll always want to ‘tweak’ them.

After you do all that, you can then turn Audessey off and use your manual settings, turn it on, to flat, or F/R bypass. Only in Manual mode will the EQ bands be different. In all other modes they are left where Audessey put them.
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#212428 - 06/20/08 08:37 PM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: michael_d]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
You run auto set up first and make changes later. When you run the auto set up, it is VERY important to take your time. You need to make sure that the mic is at ear level as you sit in the seating and it is pointed straight up (preferably on a tripod). After you get it set in the first position, get comfortable somewhere that your body will not serve as some sort of bass trap or reflective object (no kidding). I grab my RF remote and back myself into the EQ area when I do this. You may be able to crouch behind a couch or something. When you are ready, also make sure that the kids aren’t running around with waffle bats or your neighbor isn’t running the lawnmower. It everything is cool, hit the go button on the remote and let the AVR do its thing. Repeat this in four or five more seating locations. Then you let the AVR calculate and then save those settings.

Step 2-
Verify speaker distances. You will notice that the sub is wacky. Don’t worry too much as it should show further away than what it actually is. Some folks have their own rules of thumb for this, and mine is + 8 feet. Make sure all the other speakers are pretty close to actual distances.

Step 3-
Set up your handy dandy RS meter on the tripod you had the mic on. Put it in the main position, which should have been position one when running the auto set up. Go into manual speaker set up and run through the channel levels manually. Dial all the speakers in to how you prefer them. You may not have to touch anything. I prefer the center channel to be 2 DB higher than the mains, the sub to be 5 DB higher than the mains and all others matched to the mains.

Step 4-
Check your X-over settings. Play with these some. I like to set my mains to Large and all others to small. I set LFE to Mains + LFE. Again, play with these a bit to see where you prefer it.

Step 5-
Copy the EQ curve. This does as you mention, sorta. It copies a few bands where Audessey set them. You can then go to each of the bands and tweak as you wish. This will most likely drive you nuts because you’ll always want to ‘tweak’ them.

After you do all that, you can then turn Audessey off and use your manual settings, turn it on, to flat, or F/R bypass. Only in Manual mode will the EQ bands be different. In all other modes they are left where Audessey put them.



Thanks mdrew, this is the kind of detailed description I've been looking for. I'm gonna print this out and give a shot next week when my fronts and center arrive \:\/

Seem to be a lot of people that don't mind helping out with good advice on this forum. Think I'll stick around
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"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

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#212433 - 06/20/08 09:10 PM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: edmondwolfman]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Even if you don't keep the Axioms for some reason(it does ahppen on occassion) stick around anyway, I find this forum much more fun, helpful, than most.

I ran my 3808 without Audyssey for a couple of weeks then decided to try it out and it took me a few days to get used to the new sound, reminiscent of speaker breakin theory. I liked what I heard. I have recently reset the processor and lost all settings and have yet to go back to the Audyssey, as I still like the non EQ'd setup and I haven't had time in the house alone to do the EQ setup.
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Jason
-----------------
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My HT

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#212455 - 06/20/08 11:08 PM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: edmondwolfman]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
Bobby, regarding Audyssey(and other auto calibration/room equalization systems)keep in mind that there are two separate functions involved, i.e., calibration and equalization, which distinction many still fail to grasp. As to the calibration of levels and distance delays, the automated process should be at least as accurate as a manual setting(with added human error), even when aided with a separate SPL meter.

As to the room equalization function, this is more controversial, but the majority of users who've applied it correctly(long discussion on AVS)report improvements, regardless of comments along the line of "Audyssey stole all my bass!".
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#212470 - 06/21/08 04:57 AM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: JohnK]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: JohnK
regardless of comments along the line of "Audyssey stole all my bass!".
Luckily, that is very easily repaired with a quick bump up of the subs setting.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#212503 - 06/21/08 07:20 PM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: jakewash]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4842
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
I ran audessey with my m80'sd and wasn't terribly happy with the results. I changed the setting on my sub and re-ran it.... I had adjusted some of the channels after the audessey set up (fine tuned things with my SPl meter) and for some reason audessey just kept reverting to the old settings.

Acouple of weeks ago I did a hard reset and manually adjusted everything without ever running audessey. So far I like things much better without it...
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#212517 - 06/21/08 09:51 PM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: terzaghi]
myrison Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
"Edmond,"

Just a brief note to put another +1 on the 3808 + Axioms. I love my setup and the Epic 80 sounds fantastic. When I did my initial setup, I ran Audessey.

I found that the distance setup results were fairly accurate, but did find that recalibrating with an SPL meter led to some small changes and this was mostly for personal preference moreso than it was that the volume levels were actually imbalanced. For example, I like to run my center channel +3 dB from the other fronts, and my sub ~3-5 dB higher, so I bumped these up manually afterwards, but the SPL meter helped to fine tune).

In my room, running with the Denon-applied EQ and without it, I do not notice a large difference, so I think it's something you should try in your room and see if you like it better with or without it. One way or the other, I'm pretty sure you're going to be very happy with the setup.
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Epic 80-800: HG Cherry | HT Pics

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#212729 - 06/23/08 08:17 PM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: edmondwolfman]
Thunderhawk Offline
regular

Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 7
Has anyone used Axioms speaker wire?

What was the results?

Can you use it inside walls?

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#212730 - 06/23/08 08:30 PM Re: Speaker wire with new Axioms [Re: Thunderhawk]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
I use it. It's pretty neat (gauge 12 with nice black rubber that is not too thick). I don't think they have the certification for in-wall (otherwise they would advertise it). You might want to drop them an email; they are always eager to answer questions.

I know that monoprice.com and Bluejeans have 12 that are certified for in-wall application and that are not expensive at all.
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